$22s: I flop a 17-outer from the SB, what now?

Seat 1: HERO 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif ($1,480 in chips)
Seat 2: westopresto ($1,160 in chips)
Seat 3: _Skoal_ ($1,480 in chips)
Seat 4: MOMLASAM ($985 in chips)
Seat 5: rockndaddy ($1,500 in chips)
Seat 6: yuleekooly ($1,360 in chips)
Seat 7: PokerNEOne ($2,195 in chips)
Seat 8: fallen92 ($1,460 in chips)
Seat 9: Herman18 ($2,020 in chips)
Seat 10: scorpiocon ($1,360 in chips)

ANTES/BLINDS
HERO posts blind ($10), westopresto posts blind ($20).

PRE-FLOP
_Skoal_ folds, MOMLASAM calls $20, rockndaddy folds, yuleekooly calls $20, PokerNEOne folds, fallen92 folds, Herman18 folds, scorpiocon folds, HERO calls $10, westopresto checks.

FLOP 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

HERO checks, westopresto checks, MOMLASAM bets $65, yuleekooly bets $130, HERO ?

First, on the call, I was getting 7 to 1 and I was only playing on if I hit the flop hard. Second, some reads -- yuleekooly and MOMLASAM had already coldcalled a few 5bb raises and got pretty out of line postflop. Although we had only played about 10 hands, they were easily 2 of the weakest 3 players on the table. I checked because I knew at least one of them would bet.

How do you play it?

.

[fisherman112]

calling is fine. no sense in raising if you know they'll get their whole stacks in with top pair.

If I know they'll get their whole stack in with top pair, why not push? For example, if he has black A8 I'm a 58.4/41.6 favorite.

[ QUOTE ]
If I know they'll get their whole stack in with top pair, why not push? For example, if he has black A8 I'm a 58.4/41.6 favorite.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he meant no sense pushing if you know they'll get their whole stack in with top pair even after you hit.

If I smooth-call reraiser, it will certainly be a 3-way pot. Does this affect my decision?

Let's say I put the reraiser on top pair.... more than 40 percent of the time, he's not going to have top pair any more, and will be that much less likely to stack off. Do you still think calling and waiting to make a hand is good?

[zambonidrivr]

why put your stack at risk on a small edge like this? can you not outplay them in later rounds? seems to be a lot of poker left here. too bad you donked off your stack early

[ QUOTE ]
why put your stack at risk on a small edge like this? can you not outplay them in later rounds? seems to be a lot of poker left here. too bad you donked off your stack early

[/ QUOTE ]

"Outplaying" people means making bets when you have an edge. Calling me a donk isn't exactly adding to the discussion. Is going allin in the SB with any two when the blinds are high "outplaying"? If you had an overpair would you be allin on this flop, because I have an edge over an overpair.... I didn't "donk off" my stack -- I won when he couldn't fold his black J8. But thanks for the great comment.

[zambonidrivr]

nothing like moving in on a draw during level 1. nh

Would you move in with two black aces on this flop?

[zambonidrivr]

with aces i would have raised preflop.

[MegaBet]

How do you know you have 17 outs? Someone else may have 2 higher hearts for example...

[zambonidrivr]

dude, it is not worth your breath

[flyingmoose]

I'm folding the flop. You DON'T have 17 outs after a bet and a min-raise. What hands do you put your opponents on after that kind of action that leaves you with 17 outs? Maybe one guy limped JJ and another limped AA?

I don't want to go broke to the original raiser's bigger flush draw or the reraiser's made straight when I hit the turn.

If you push, then you MIGHT get a bigger flush draw to fold (if that flush draw player's hand includes 2 overcards, then he's probably calling thinking all HIS outs are live). But you have little fold equity and almost no chance of knowing whether you're ahead when you hit. I let it go.

[ QUOTE ]
dude, it is not worth your breath

[/ QUOTE ] Please stop this petty sniping. It's completely unnecessary, dude. I probably misplayed this hand and got lucky. Oh well.