AQs in NL tourneys

[gisborne]

I don't understand how I'm supposed to play this hand.

Raise:
Win blinds
Reraise you'd probably have to fold
Someone calls you probably have the best hand

Limp:
No chance to outright win blinds
Let worse hands come in for cheap
Someone raises you probably have to fold

In Sklansky's TPfAP book he says on p. 114 "<font color="blue">Usually they will steal the pot. Maybe even often enough to show a profit. But when they don't, they get reraised big time. So big that you will usually have to fold. But that is very sad when your hand is something like TT or AQs. These are hands that might have won a big pot had you not played them that way." </font color>

First off, if I limp with AQs and get raised I'm not going to call anyway. You'd be playing head's up for a second best hand. Secondly, he neglects the possibility that you will get a call with a worse hand. Finally, he neglects the possiblity of letting worse hands in that will win a lot of money from you that you wouldn't have lost otherwise.

Example:

I have 2400 in chips. Blinds are 50-100. I limp utg with AQh. MP limps. SB calls, BB checks. Flop come A98 with 2 clubs. Checked to me, I bet 300 into the 400 pot. MP raises an additional 600 which the SB and BB fold. Fold, reraise, call? <font color="green">Either way, I've put myself in the very position that Sklansky is trying to avoid with these hands </font color>.

Please enlighten me.

[JMarks]

I prefer to raise it and if i get rr by most players fold. The exceptions come vs certain players/ stack sizes / if you have a good read on someone. Seems to me that raising and folding when reraised isnt so bad, maybey when you have AK or a big pair someone will make a move at you.

[fnurt]

The problem is that if you CALL and get raised you really don't know where you are. Picture limping from early position and it's folded around to the button, there are lots of hands the button will raise with, including AQ, AJ, etc. The other day I limped in early position (with KK) and the button raised with Q2. Point being it's such a well-known play that lots of hands will get raised in late position hoping to take it from you right there or on the flop. Do you really want to fold to Q2?

On the other hand, if you RAISE and get reraised you won't be up against a better hand 100% of the time, but it will be close enough to 100% that folding is still pretty clear. That's why I prefer to raise in your situation, it comes closer to finding out where you really are.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

This hand has generated a huge amount of debate several times in the past, both in limit and no limit settings. Once again, here's my 2c.

I don't like to raise with AQ, suited or not, in a full ring game. You're most likely not going to get any action from anything but hands you don't want to play against, and then you'll probably get reraised big time. I usually limp in early, and fold to a big raise. Now if I'm in middle to late position, and no one's in the pot yet, the story changes. Now I'll raise, but NOT a large raise. Once again, if you get reraised big time, you're going to have to fold. So I might raise double or triple the blinds. It's a small enough bet to get away from if need be.

In a tournament, it's basically the same thing. The only difference is that you can't buy more chips, so you have to be more cautious. I'll sometimes even fold it, especially if I don't have a lot of chips, others behind me do, and it's a fairly large blind. Of course it's a great blind stealing hand though, because most don't think you will be that strong when you steal from the button. It's also a good hand for snapping off other people's steals.

You're probably going to get very mixed results from this post.

al

[Guy McSucker]

I had a discussion on AQ with Al Capone Junior and I took most of his points but still don't like an early position limp with AQ.

Here's what I came up with. First of all, I am never unhappy to win the blinds in a tournament. They're usually a pretty decent chunk of my stack, and when they're not, I have a large stack so I'm playing differently anyway.

I want to raise coming in with AQ, for the reasons other posts have suggested. So, if I have enough chips to raise and fold to a reraise, I'll do just that. If I don't have enough chips to fold to a reraise, I'll either push all-in, or just fold.

Against a raise, with some players I reraise, others I fold. On a short stack I'll be more inclined to push in.

Guy.

[gisborne]

My problem is that before I read TPfAP I felt the same way. Then Sklasky suggests (well suggest isn't really the right word...says) that limping with AQs is the correct play. What's the deal? It seems like everyone that has responded thinks that raising is the correct play which conflicts with Sklansky's advice.

What really annoys me is that, no surprise, TPfAP lacks content. He says a few key concepts and gives a few examples of unusual plays then leaves it at that. Then some of it appears wrong to boot.

[J.R.]

Finally, he neglects the possiblity of letting worse hands in that will win a lot of money from you that you wouldn't have lost otherwise.

The whole point of the exercise is that he is presenting hands that for a little can win a lot. AQs and TT are his examples, because both can make big hands. You want to let others come in after you, because when you flop big (set or nut flush), you want people to be around to pay you off.

His criticism is by raising big (which implies you have a decent stack in relation to the blinds) with these hands, they are in effect made no better than a steal raise with 72o, because you will either steal the blinds (which is a disaster with hands that can win far more than just the blinds) or have to fold to a re-raise. He is addressing the raises beginers often make that are so big they will not induce players to flat-call.

The downside of both limping and raising big is that you have to fold to a re-raise, but by limping, you get the additional benefit of 1) huge upside, because you are trying to create a multi-way pot with a good multi-way hand (which you don't have if you raise big- your upside is pretty much the blinds, because you will fold to a re-raise and no one is likely to flat call) and 2) you don't risk as much by limping as raising big, since you are going to fold to re-raise in each case.

He is not talking about pot-building raises but the big overbets many beginners make. The only point of those big raises is to steal the blinds, because you are only going to get raised by a better hand. if you are going to stea the blinds, you should do it with a hand that is worth less than blinds- otherwise you are selling yourself short. I think the essence of his point is why risk a lot to win a little when you can risk a little to win a lot.

I disagree with Sklansky's opinion that this strategy is just as relevant later on, because as the blinds and antes increase, the benefit of stealing the blinds becomes significant.

What to do in the specific situation you present is to play good poker- read your opponents and play according. There is no strategy that will take the poker decisions out of the game, but Sklansky's strategy will give you a chance to win big pots, which you need to do to be successful in no-limit tournaments where you must accumulate chips to be successful. Big upside, low risk situations are what you should seek in no-limit.