View Full Version : Question about SNGPT
splashpot
10-15-2005, 05:20 PM
Does it take into consideration micro stacks? For example:
UTG 50
BU 3500
Hero 950
BB 3500
100/200 bilnds
Folds to you in the SB with J9o. SNGPT says push. But you could easily wait a couple hands and most likely move into the money. It seems to me that folding here is more +EV. Am I wrong?
stupidsucker
10-15-2005, 05:39 PM
SNGPT has its own forum, and the author is extremly helpful in answering any questions about the program in detail.
Your answer is likely already answered over there.
In other words... I dont know exactly,but I know where you can find out... (http://www.sitngo-analyzer.com/phpBB2/)
splashpot
10-15-2005, 05:41 PM
I know they have their own forum, but more people read here.
FlyWf
10-15-2005, 05:45 PM
SNGPT doesn't understand that UTG will be allin next hand, so yeah, it overrates the EV of pushing here.
stupidsucker
10-15-2005, 05:57 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I know they have their own forum, but more people read here.
[/ QUOTE ]
yes, but the one person that can answer your question better then anyone reads the other forum religiously.
From my understanding SNGPT does have an option called equity modeling that will take the blinds into consideration.
equity modeling (http://www.sitngo-analyzer.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=245)
One limitation with SNGPT is it wont work with any stack that can not cover the blinds.... so how does SnGPT tell you that it is a push??? I dont think sngpt will give you any answer for this. It will give you a pop-up box telling you it cant do this.
I'm pretty sure it still won't calculate anything unless all the stacks are at least 1BB
In that case, however, it does let you discount equity for being in the BB next turn
splashpot
10-15-2005, 06:12 PM
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I'm pretty sure it still won't calculate anything unless all the stacks are at least 1BB
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This is not true. It does calculate something. It says push.
stupidsucker
10-15-2005, 06:38 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure it still won't calculate anything unless all the stacks are at least 1BB
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This is not true. It does calculate something. It says push.
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Then we really need eastbay then.. because I just plugged in your numbers and it gave me the error I said it would...
I have never known this program to work with any stack under the BB (even if the stack is out of action like this time)
if you adjust the stacks slightly to
BB-3435
SB-933
BTN-3431
CO-201
And put the BB on an TIGHT calling range (top 8%) and turn equity modeling on to 50% the program spits out a clear fold even if the short has 201 instead of 50.
splashpot
10-15-2005, 06:40 PM
What version are you using? I got v1.18b
[ QUOTE ]
What version are you using? I got v1.18b
[/ QUOTE ]There is a v1.19 in test phase, maybe some is using that?
stupidsucker
10-15-2005, 07:46 PM
[ QUOTE ]
What version are you using? I got v1.18b
[/ QUOTE ]
1.19test10
No you aren't wrong snpt doesn't take into account micro stacks and it says so right in the forums there.
When in doubt do the move that makes the most sense when you see tiny stacks in play
eastbay
10-15-2005, 10:31 PM
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SNGPT doesn't understand that UTG will be allin next hand, so yeah, it overrates the EV of pushing here.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's not really true.
eastbay
eastbay
10-15-2005, 10:38 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Does it take into consideration micro stacks? For example:
UTG 50
BU 3500
Hero 950
BB 3500
100/200 bilnds
Folds to you in the SB with J9o. SNGPT says push.
[/ QUOTE ]
It says no such thing.
eastbay
splashpot
10-16-2005, 03:11 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does it take into consideration micro stacks? For example:
UTG 50
BU 3500
Hero 950
BB 3500
100/200 bilnds
Folds to you in the SB with J9o. SNGPT says push.
[/ QUOTE ]
It says no such thing.
eastbay
[/ QUOTE ]
Uhhh....yea it does. I'm looking at it right now.
http://img415.imageshack.us/img415/1594/sngpt0iu.th.jpg (http://img415.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sngpt0iu.jpg)
Do you always use those call ranges? I never use those.. I think they're too tight for the $22's. If that was the standard CR, I could just start pushing at 50/100 and never stop. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif
If BB has you covered by that much, his calling range will be much larger than the average range you selected. Given you're example, I think you're pretty clearly in fold any two territory.
I re-did the problem with CO having just enough to cover the BB (taking the chips from button), and in that case you can push AA, and maybe KK if BB is either way too loose or way too tight, but given that in your example UTG will be all-in on his next two hands, I think you probably have to fold AA here, too (from a $EV point of view).
fluorescenthippo
10-16-2005, 04:00 AM
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I think you probably have to fold AA here, too (from a $EV point of view).
[/ QUOTE ]
sorry , you are not folding AA here. or anything close to AA
eastbay
10-16-2005, 11:58 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does it take into consideration micro stacks? For example:
UTG 50
BU 3500
Hero 950
BB 3500
100/200 bilnds
Folds to you in the SB with J9o. SNGPT says push.
[/ QUOTE ]
It says no such thing.
eastbay
[/ QUOTE ]
Uhhh....yea it does. I'm looking at it right now.
http://img415.imageshack.us/img415/1594/sngpt0iu.th.jpg (http://img415.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sngpt0iu.jpg)
[/ QUOTE ]
No it doesn't. You may be looking, but you aren't seeing.
(You're exhibiting a very common mistake, so I'm making an example of you. Nothing personal.)
eastbay
stupidsucker
10-16-2005, 12:42 PM
I dont understand why it gave him a calculation at all, but even so... As mentioned the calling ranges are waaay too tight.
SNGPT isnt a magic toy that spits out an answer. You have to put in a range that makes sense. the BB is going to call at LEAST with the top 15% and maybe as low as the top 23%(in this scenerio)... ya that much IMO... If I a wrong then I am not using proper ranges either.
[ QUOTE ]
You have to put in a range that makes sense. the BB is going to call at LEAST with the top 15% and maybe as low as the top 23%(in this scenerio)
[/ QUOTE ]Do you think the average player gets the ranks correct? For instance, I would have thought A4o was better than KTs, but the KS ranking used by SNGPT rates KTs higher. I imagine the effective calling range of actual players is not the continuous percentage of hands we play with in SNGPT.
eastbay
10-17-2005, 11:05 AM
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Do you think the average player gets the ranks correct?
[/ QUOTE ]
There is no such thing as a "correct" rank. Different hands have different characteristics and are stronger or weaker depending on a lot of things.
[ QUOTE ]
For instance, I would have thought A4o was better than KTs, but the KS ranking used by SNGPT rates KTs higher.
[/ QUOTE ]
A4o is better for some things and worse for others. There is no unique rank order, it all depends on context.
The KS rankings are really just one way to think about ranking.
[ QUOTE ]
I imagine the effective calling range of actual players is not the continuous percentage of hands we play with in SNGPT.
[/ QUOTE ]
True. Which is why you can define any custom ranges you like.
eastbay
Nicholasp27
10-17-2005, 11:22 AM
[ QUOTE ]
For example:
UTG 50
BU 3500
Hero 950
BB 3500
100/200 bilnds
Folds to you in the SB with J9o. SNGPT says push.
[/ QUOTE ]
SNGPT won't calculate with that 50 stack, so how did u get it to say push?
Nicholasp27
10-17-2005, 11:25 AM
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I think you probably have to fold AA here, too (from a $EV point of view).
[/ QUOTE ]
never fold AA preflop when there isn't a flat payout structure (top 3 all get same prize)
citanul
10-17-2005, 12:05 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you probably have to fold AA here, too (from a $EV point of view).
[/ QUOTE ]
never fold AA preflop when there isn't a flat payout structure (top 3 all get same prize)
[/ QUOTE ]
don't be an idiot.
eastbay
10-17-2005, 12:12 PM
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SNGPT won't calculate with that 50 stack, so how did u get it to say push?
[/ QUOTE ]
Some versions did allow it.
eastbay
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