i suck. whiffed flops suck too. [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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detruncate

10-14-2005, 11:44 PM

Empire Poker 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed)

Table is tight. Yadda yadda. Love the Empire.

Preflop: dumbass is UTG+2 with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, dumbass raises, MP1 calls, 5 folds, BB calls.

Cold caller has TAGgy stats, but the cold call makes me wonder. My first thought is that he's either got a monster and is getting cute or is floating since he's unlikely to have called expecting a multiway pot. He may also be following a hand chart without thinking too much about it or be more optimistic re. a multiway pot than me.

BB is looking rockish.

I may or may not be perceived as overly aggressive pf and spewing + calling down too much post flop.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
BB checks, dumbass bets, MP1 calls, BB folds.

Turn: (4.25 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
dumbass bets, MP1 calls.

This confuses the hell out of me unless he's on a draw or trying to extract bets. I don't think I've been so out of line that I'm being treated as borderline retarded, but it's certainly possible. I are fish.

Anyone hate the turn bet?

River: (6.25 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
dumbass ???

Are we done? Do we fire again to try to push off a strangely played bigger ace? You'd think better aces would have raised, but you never know. I doubt he's folding any pair he decided to call the turn with. Is there any point trying to induce a bluff?

Yerma

10-14-2005, 11:59 PM

I'm assuming MP1 is a kind of a thinking player.

So if you check the river, it looks like you either totally whiffed and made continuation bets, or have a hand like 99 or JJ where you're content to check the river thru, but will likely call a bet.

Either way, if he has a hand like KQs or A /images/graemlins/spade.gifJ /images/graemlins/spade.gif he will quite often bet here himself. If he has a hand like 88, he may check through and take his chances. So, if you check, you probably cannot win, and probably should not call a bet trying to pick off a bluff.

If you bet, there aren't very many hands you can push off here. Maybe if he cold-called you preflop with 88, or has AQs then he might fold.

Overall, this looks like a check-fold on the river to me.

Duffman

10-15-2005, 12:05 AM

Preflop cold call could be a bigger ace, small pair, or some kind of suited connector.

I bet the turn as well. Fold to a raise.

The river - I probably check the river and hope for a free showdown.

The way I see it : You bet, get called you lose 1BB. He's not calling with anything you beat.

You bet, he raises, you fold. Lose 1BB.

You check he bets, you call. Lose 1BB.

You check, he checks behind: free showdown.

Slightly better chance if you check.

detruncate

10-15-2005, 01:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop cold call could be a bigger ace, small pair, or some kind of suited connector.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ordinarily I'd agree. But I think the table VPIP was well under 20%. I may have been presuming too much to assume that Villain would raise or fold bigger aces or PPs and fold suited connectors since it was almost certainly going to end up 2-3 way. But he seemed fairly reasonable to this point.

Online247

10-15-2005, 01:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Preflop cold call could be a bigger ace, small pair, or some kind of suited connector.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ordinarily I'd agree. But I think the table VPIP was well under 20%. I may have been presuming too much to assume that Villain would raise or fold bigger aces or PPs and fold suited connectors since it was almost certainly going to end up 2-3 way. But he seemed fairly reasonable to this point.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a reasonable player and there are times where I just call a raise from a TAG with a big ace or a mid pocket pair to mix my game up a bit.

10-15-2005, 02:13 AM

These hands are terrible. I think you have to bet with the hope of pushing off a AQ or AJ (the most common cold calling hands) which may have peeled one off on the flop and then turn with the gssd and maybe a flush draw. Lot's of times I lose to 99 or 88 here, though.

detruncate

10-15-2005, 04:25 AM

Party Poker 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: dumbass is UTG+2 with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, dumbass raises, MP1 calls, 5 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
BB checks, dumbass bets, MP1 calls, BB folds.

Turn: (4.25 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
dumbass bets, MP1 calls.

River: (6.25 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
dumbass checks, MP1 bets, dumbass calls.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB.

Results:
MP1 has As Qd (high card ace.)
dumbass has Jh Ad (high card ace.)
MP1 wins 7.75 BB.

I decided that the most likely holding was a draw given my EP raise. Check/calling was probably the worst of the three options. I think some psychoanalysis is in order. I seem to have an overpowering urge to give money away.

shant

10-15-2005, 05:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Preflop cold call could be a bigger ace, small pair, or some kind of suited connector.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ordinarily I'd agree. But I think the table VPIP was well under 20%. I may have been presuming too much to assume that Villain would raise or fold bigger aces or PPs and fold suited connectors since it was almost certainly going to end up 2-3 way. But he seemed fairly reasonable to this point.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a reasonable player and there are times where I just call a raise from a TAG with a big ace or a mid pocket pair to mix my game up a bit.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is not a good way to mix up your game.

@bsolute_luck

10-15-2005, 06:53 AM

easy check/call on the river. hope for a busted draw or weaker Ace-high.