Stanzee masterclass: folding AA preflop

[stanzee]

I was inspired to post this after i read another thread on folding AA. I think this is a lot closer.

Basic history: Since being ITM, i've been running the table over and created a mini bubble. I'm in the SB, shorty is in the BB. Here's the hand i fold AA preflop ($33):

Table Table 63535 (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 7: villain1 ( $2780 )
Seat 8: hero ( $4680 )
Seat 10: villain2 ( $540 )
Trny:16588760 Level:7
Blinds(150/300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to hero [ Ac Ah ]
villain1 folds.
hero folds.
villain2 does not show cards.
villain2 wins 450 chips
>You have options at Table 62464 Table!.


Thoughts? No need to call me a genius on the basis of this. This isn't even in the top draw of intellectual moves i regularly make!

Yours,
The special one,
Stanzee

Can you run over a table itm?

This seems like a very bad idea passing up the obvious value of AA for the possible value of a tight itm mini bubble. Why are you making things so hard on yourself with this tourny? I really think your fold wasn't value motivated but more "Look at how good I must be. To pass up aces becuase cards don't matter when I play." motivated.

[KingDan]

Edit: I chaged my mind. Don't tap the glass.

[Karak567]

Terrible fold.

This is ITM, not on the bubble. MAYBE on the bubble, but his stack is even a little large for that.

You are not going to boss most players around ITM, ever.

[SCfuji]

LOLLLLLLLL LOLLLLOLERELRJELRJLKASJDLASDLAKSDASL AAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAS DASHDLAKDJAL KAHAHAHA ROFLKJASDFKLJ.

[Big Limpin']

[ QUOTE ]

This isn't even in the top draw of intellectual moves i regularly make!


[/ QUOTE ]
Drawer?
[ QUOTE ]
No need to call me a genius on the basis of this.

[/ QUOTE ]
That wont be a problem.

just giving you the gears, stanzee, i like your style, keep it up.

[EricW]

lol you really are "the special one"

[Onaflag]

Personally, I loosen up a bit ITM, but that's just me. Seriously, if this isn't a joke, the logic goes right over my head. Take his last few chips and work Villian 1 over HU.

Onaflag..........

[applejuicekid]

is this a joke?

if not....horrible

[stanzee]

[ QUOTE ]

You are not going to boss most players around ITM, ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know what you're saying, and in most cases you're correct, you cant boss as much ITM. But in this case i was sensing the middle stack was playing for 2nd and the small stack was't getting involved at all.

My instincts proved to be correct. When i carried on hammering at the middle stack he kept folding and ironically ended up busting 3rd, leaving an easy heads up with me and shorty.

So yes, i am a genius /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Karak567]

In all cases I am correct. You cannot expect to steal enough blinds to make up for this AND factor in the times that he may pick up a big hand and fight you and find this is +EV.

I do not agree with this play. Personally, I think it's terrible. But maybe you have your (somewhat twisted) reasons. Everyone plays a different game. I just dont see a good ENOUGH reason to fold these.

My thinking is, if you had 10Js, would you have pushed and told us how great a push you made?

[applejuicekid]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

You are not going to boss most players around ITM, ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know what you're saying, and in most cases you're correct, you cant boss as much ITM. But in this case i was sensing the middle stack was playing for 2nd and the small stack was't getting involved at all.

My instincts proved to be correct. When i carried on hammering at the middle stack he kept folding and ironically ended up busting 3rd, leaving an easy heads up with me and shorty.

So yes, i am a genius /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahhh...results oriented thinking, the mark of a truly great poker mind.

[stanzee]

[ QUOTE ]

Ahhh...results oriented thinking, the mark of a truly great poker mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all. It's all about knowing your opponents, getting inside their heads and realising how desperate someone is to not bust out 3rd. The few chips i gave up on this hand pales in comparison to the amount of blinds i was able to steal off the middle stack.

[lastchance]

This can't be a serious post, right?

[mike28]

EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE
EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE EXPECTED VALUE
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOO

[lorinda]

http://www.neuro.jhmi.edu/BrainWaves/2004_Spring/photos/moran.jpg

Lori

[stanzee]

[ QUOTE ]
In all cases I am correct. You cannot expect to steal enough blinds to make up for this AND factor in the times that he may pick up a big hand and fight you and find this is +EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, while there is a short stack involved i hold MUCH more folding equity then i do if it goes heads up there and then.

or maybe you just blow nuts heads-up. you are the worst player in the world.

-randy

[valenzuela]

That is clearly -EV.
Or you made an horrible play or you wasted time that could have been spent playing poker faking a stupid hand history.
Actually now that I think about it, judging by the way you play I think youre better off faking hand histories than playing poker.
<font color="white"> just in case </font>

[stanzee]

[ QUOTE ]
or maybe you just blow nuts heads-up. you are the worst player in the world.

-randy

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no worries about my heads up game. I just intented to make things as easy as possible once the game ended up heads up. By making this fold, under the current table conditions (i.e the villains playing tighter then a virgins ****), i knew i'd be able to cripple the middle stack before it got to heads up. Of course, if i sensed the middle stack was going to put up any sort of fight, i wouldn't have made this move, but under these conditions i was able to give up a little short term value to gain more over the next dozen or so hands.

[cleinen]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually now that I think about it, judging by the way you play I think youre better off faking hand histories than playing poker.

[/ QUOTE ]
nh

[stanzee]

I find it quite laughable that whenever anyone posts an alternative strategy, they just get berated or flamed on this forum. Some of you should hang your heads in shame, and at the same time try just for a second to open your minds.

[Karak567]

I neither berated nor flamed you.

[applejuicekid]

[ QUOTE ]
I find it quite laughable that whenever anyone posts an alternative strategy, they just get berated or flamed on this forum. Some of you should hang your heads in shame, and at the same time try just for a second to open your minds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Keeping the short stack alive is not an alternative strategy and has been discussed several times on this forum. This is just a horrible misapplication of this strategy.

[BradleyT]

Shorty is going to be all in whether you like it or not within a few hands anyway so there's no real advantage to keeping him around in this scenario (unless villian1 folds 100% of hands).

[SCfuji]

my pride must step in to save your soul. look, things went perfectly for you. you obviously think about the game so think about what else could have happened.

i actually thought your first controversial post was interesting, even though i disliked your approach and then chose to dislike you. but i opened up my play a little bit more every now and then which has actually helped me accumulate chips. but this is just plain fancy and dumb stanzee. this is a party 33 SnG not the wsop.

[stanzee]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I find it quite laughable that whenever anyone posts an alternative strategy, they just get berated or flamed on this forum. Some of you should hang your heads in shame, and at the same time try just for a second to open your minds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Keeping the short stack alive is not an alternative strategy and has been discussed several times on this forum. This is just a horrible misapplication of this strategy.

[/ QUOTE ]

So it's okay in a pure bubble situation, yes. But not okay in this mini bubble situation?

I sensed the the middle stack is not calling with anything less then TT+ or AJs+. Once he's guaranteed 2nd place his calling standards dramatically change to probably QT+ Kx and any PP, and maybe even worse then this range. Not only that, but he can then start stealing off me with all sorts of cr p.

[valenzuela]

[ QUOTE ]
I find it quite laughable that whenever anyone posts a LAME REPATATIVE thread, they just get berated or flamed on this forum. Some of you should KILL ME .

[/ QUOTE ]
FYP
<font color="white"> Im actually kinda serious.....</font>

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]

I sensed the the middle stack is not calling with anything less then TT+ or AJs+. Once he's guaranteed 2nd place his calling standards dramatically change to probably QT+ Kx and any PP, and maybe even worse then this range.

[/ QUOTE ]

WRONG!!!!!!!!!! (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Number=3613545&amp;page=&amp;view=&amp;s b=5&amp;o=&amp;vc=1)

Some one please run Powertools on this, I wanna see just how -EV this is.

[stanzee]

[ QUOTE ]
Some one please run Powertools on this, I wanna see just how -EV this is.

[/ QUOTE ]

How the fck would power tools help you with this????

[fluorescenthippo]

hahaha. nh. i take comfort in knowing you play the same buyin as me

[unreal_nh]

i like the idea... but i would only remotely consider doing it if the blinds were higher like 250/500 or 300/600.. i dont think you'll have enough successful stealing attempts at the 150/300 level to make this play worth it.

[lem45216]

Best. Fold. Ever.

[MegaBet]

Pretty awful. You have out-thought yourself here. It's still possible for the shortstack to come back and bite you. Take players out whenever you can. This play just shows how uncertain your are of your heads up game.

[MegaBet]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Ahhh...results oriented thinking, the mark of a truly great poker mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all. It's all about knowing your opponents, getting inside their heads and realising how desperate someone is to not bust out 3rd. The few chips i gave up on this hand pales in comparison to the amount of blinds i was able to steal off the middle stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong. I wouldn't hesitate to put my chips in if I was in second place if I though the big stack was stealing too much and I had a decent hand.

[Ogre]

horrible fold

[TomHimself]

can a mod change his title to the special retard?

or ban him

[Newt_Buggs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Some one please run Powertools on this, I wanna see just how -EV this is.

[/ QUOTE ]

How the fck would power tools help you with this????

[/ QUOTE ]
Powertools says that this is a +1.5% push. Although folding this will lead to future +EV opportunities, they will not add up to +1.5% in the end, especially since if either of your opponents have any intelligence you will be heads up very soon anyway.

[Newt_Buggs]

I can't believe that I just made a serious post in one of Stanzee's threads, I feel dirty now.

[splashpot]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Some one please run Powertools on this, I wanna see just how -EV this is.

[/ QUOTE ]

How the fck would power tools help you with this????

[/ QUOTE ]
After reading this remark, does anyone else think he's talking about actual power tools? Drills, saws, etc. Lol.

[SCfuji]

you cant ban panzee for posting stuff that stirs discussion (although its usually more of a mass mockery). hes trying to bring some old ideas back that he thinks are interesting and hes free to do so.

[MegaBet]

[ QUOTE ]
panzee

[/ QUOTE ]

nh /images/graemlins/grin.gif