Aggressive with 88 from EP

[Chris Callahan]

This hand is from a tight online 5/10 game. I raise 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif8/images/graemlins/heart.gif UTG. A tight aggressive player in late position makes it tree bets. I call. Flop comes

5/images/graemlins/spade.gif6/images/graemlins/heart.gif7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

and I check and call. Turn is the A/images/graemlins/club.gif. I check-raise.

[Wally Weeks]

[ QUOTE ]
This hand is from a tight online 5/10 game. I raise 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif8/images/graemlins/heart.gif UTG. A tight aggressive player in late position makes it tree bets. I call. Flop comes

5/images/graemlins/spade.gif6/images/graemlins/heart.gif7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

and I check and call. Turn is the A/images/graemlins/club.gif. I check-raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is there a question or something?

I think this is fine, but since you, the Hero, are OOP will you bet out on the river UI? Obviously, you'll call a 3-bet on the turn, but will you still bet out on the river or will you just check/fold?

If this TAG has an A he's probably going to call you down (i.e. AK, AQ). If he raised pre-flop w/ a PP smaller than AA he might fold, I suppose.

Other than TAG, what sort of read do you have on this guy? Will he fold often to a scare card check/raise if he thinks he behind or will he simply go into call down mode?

[Alex/Mugaaz]

/puke

[Chris Callahan]

[ QUOTE ]
Is there a question or something?

[/ QUOTE ]

Implicit question: Does anyone have any opinions about the way I played this hand?

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is fine, but since you, the Hero, are OOP will you bet out on the river UI? Obviously, you'll call a 3-bet on the turn, but will you still bet out on the river or will you just check/fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

I will check-fold the river UI.

[ QUOTE ]
Other than TAG, what sort of read do you have on this guy? Will he fold often to a scare card check/raise if he thinks he behind or will he simply go into call down mode?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know about specific tendencies. He stats were 22/13/1.8 after 100 hands.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

I seriously think what you basically did was insure you got more money in with the worst of it.

You were most likely a nice favorite on the flop and your check just gave him a free card. When the ace hits you are now definitely behind whatever hand he is holding. Players at this level won't let hands go here to a check raise, they need to showdown every hand they 3bet, it's compulsive. So basically you managed to avoid betting when you had the best of it, and then get 2big bets in when you were drawing to 8.x outs. There is only a small chance of getting a free showdown when you check to him, and if you hit the str8 there is almost no chance of you getting 2 bets in on the river.

[McGahee]

[ QUOTE ]
/puke

[/ QUOTE ]

[Chris Callahan]

[ QUOTE ]
I seriously think what you basically did was insure you got more money in with the worst of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is roughly what I thought too.

I probably should have raised the flop being a favorite at that point. However, the chance of getting a fold on the turn cannot be close to zero because KK-99 will fold some of the time IMO. Apparently there is a big chance I'm mistaken though.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I seriously think what you basically did was insure you got more money in with the worst of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is roughly what I thought too.

I probably should have raised the flop being a favorite at that point. However, the chance of getting a fold on the turn cannot be close to zero because KK-99 will fold some of the time IMO. Apparently there is a big chance I'm mistaken though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but there is almost 0% chance.

KK-99 Don't check this flop - >> KK-99 BETS the flop.
KK-99 Doesn't bet the turn. (ok sometimes they do)

AK/AQ/Ax checks this flop ->> AK/AQ/AX bets the turn.
AK/AQ usually does bet this flop too though.

[Chris Callahan]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, but there is almost 0% chance.

KK-99 Don't check this flop - >> KK-99 BETS the flop.
KK-99 Doesn't bet the turn. (ok sometimes they do)

AK/AQ/Ax checks this flop ->> AK/AQ/AX bets the turn.
AK/AQ usually does bet this flop too though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I "checked and called" the flop, meaning he bet.

You're right about him often checking behind on the turn with a pocket pair though.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, but there is almost 0% chance.

KK-99 Don't check this flop - >> KK-99 BETS the flop.
KK-99 Doesn't bet the turn. (ok sometimes they do)

AK/AQ/Ax checks this flop ->> AK/AQ/AX bets the turn.
AK/AQ usually does bet this flop too though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I "checked and called" the flop, meaning he bet.

You're right about him often checking behind on the turn with a pocket pair though.

[/ QUOTE ]


Woops, I read the hand wrong. In this case I think your line was still bad, but a lot less bad than before.

[Wally Weeks]

[ QUOTE ]
Implicit question: Does anyone have any opinions about the way I played this hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

I probably would bet out on the flop to see in the unlikely event my opponent folding. If raised on this flop, we probably know that we're behind a big PP. Depending how aggressive your opponent is he may be on two overcards + possible BDFD or straight draw in an attempt for a freecard play. I would think that this is less likely to happen. In either event, check/raising would ensure you get either 2 or 3 bets to see the turn...betting out and calling a raise ensures you see only 1 or 2 bets; most likely 1 bet on this board. 2 bets would help give you more of a read. A check-raise would simply force your opponent to at least call giving the impression that you flopped the straight or have a set. In this case he'll probably just call you down if he improves or already has a big pair in the hole.

I'd bet out on the turn, if I thought my opponent would either muck or call. If you think he'd raise you on the turn w/ AK or something then check/calling is better. Not betting out seems weak to me though. If he raises the turn, it would definitely be easy to throw your hand away on the river UI.

If your opponent calls the turn you're definitely behind so check/folding is best.

[Carmine]

You're making a play at the pot which is okay against the right opponent(IE, he has to be able to fold KK). You know on the turn you are behind 100% no question. I also want to note that if this players range includes AQo here then I like it less (too many combos you can be behind). What I don't like is your plan to check the river. You either commit to this line or you go for your draw and see the river as cheaply as possible. I want to emphasize that this player MUST be able to laydown TT-KK. Without that read this play is of course spewing.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

[ QUOTE ]
You're making a play at the pot which is okay against the right opponent(IE, he has to be able to fold KK). You know on the turn you are behind 100% no question. I also want to note that if this players range includes AQo here then I like it less (too many combos you can be behind). What I don't like is your plan to check the river. You either commit to this line or you go for your draw and see the river as cheaply as possible. I want to emphasize that this player MUST be able to laydown TT-KK. Without that read this play is of course spewing.

[/ QUOTE ]

No one folds KK here, ever. Maybe some old men over 80yo playing live fold, but no one else.

[Carmine]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're making a play at the pot which is okay against the right opponent(IE, he has to be able to fold KK). You know on the turn you are behind 100% no question. I also want to note that if this players range includes AQo here then I like it less (too many combos you can be behind). What I don't like is your plan to check the river. You either commit to this line or you go for your draw and see the river as cheaply as possible. I want to emphasize that this player MUST be able to laydown TT-KK. Without that read this play is of course spewing.

[/ QUOTE ]

No one folds KK here, ever. Maybe some old men over 80yo playing live fold, but no one else.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're wrong. I get people to fold their premium PP's enough to make this play worth it. Again you need the right image and the right opponent. This isn't a 2/4 hand where TT calls all capped streets on a AKXXX board. If it is then we don't do it. If we get caught thats fine too. I'll use it to my advantage on future hands.