Any way to get away from this hand?

Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200, Ante is t25 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 (t4715)
MP3 (t1440)
CO (t3258)
Button (t6850)
SB (t1215)
Hero (t6185)
UTG (t2060)
UTG+1 (t1735)
UTG+2 (t7551)
MP1 (t12685)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of t100.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls t200, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to t1000</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, Hero calls t800, UTG+2 folds.

Flop: (t2300) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets t1500</font>, Hero calls t1500.

Turn: (t5300) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets t3000</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t3660</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 calls t660</font>.

River: (t12620) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: t12620

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has 5c 5s (full house, fives full of kings).
MP1 has 9h 9c (full house, nines full of kings).
Outcome: MP1 wins t12620. </font>


A friend and I were discussing this hand and he seemed to think I should've been able to get away from it at some point. My thought was that I hit my set against one of the only 2 stacks at the table that could double me up and there was no way I was getting away from a set on an uncoordinated board (and 67 didn't seem like a likely hand for the PF raiser).

About the only time I really could've folded this hand was PF, but as the BB I thought it was worth seeing the flop to see if I hit my set. Once I did, my goal was to get all of the money in and I was destined to go broke on this hand.

Any thoughts?

This is a pretty big raise to call preflop even from the BB. Your stack is pretty big though so if you hit your 5 on the flop it could be worth it.

Another thing to consider is that UTG+2 limped and has a chance to reopen the betting. If he decides to push now you'll have wasted t800 chips.

However, after calling and hitting your set you're not getting away from this hand. A set on a rainbow board with no good straight draw and the only thing I'm worried about is how to get all the money in the pot. If he shows me a bigger set then so be it.

I turbofold that pre-flop. Calling a pf raise (especially this large) with a PP would need least least 88+/99+ IMO

Easy fold PF, he is charging you too much to play this for set value compared to your stack for one, you don't really ever want to be smooth calling away more than 10% of your stack on implied odds and set value, and for two, sure its irrelevant here, but you aren't closing the action either. Let it go PF. After you hit your set, no way you are getting away from it. This is somewhat of a BBP, but you definatly shouldn't of gotten in the hand PF.

never.. if my set loses to a higher set, that's just tough luck, but nothing more.. no read in the world could make you fold.

I'm a fairly tight player to begin with so a decent raise like that PF would fold me at this point in the tourney. Admittedly, once your in and hit your set, yeah that's damn hard to fold. However, I disagree with Marwan's "any read" comment. I guy giggling under his breath like a little girl, grinning ear to ear after that flop sure the hell would make me fold. Its a long shot, but you do have to think about the overcard set here.

[Exitonly]

Preflop, but that's it.


Your stack isn't deep enough to play 55 there for a set... but once you do, you're going to the felt.

[DyessMan89]

Preflop this a routine fold. On the flop, there is absoutley no way you are getting away from this hand. Your friend is a moron.

[ QUOTE ]
Easy fold PF, he is charging you too much to play this for set value compared to your stack for one, you don't really ever want to be smooth calling away more than 10% of your stack on implied odds and set value, and for two, sure its irrelevant here, but you aren't closing the action either. Let it go PF. After you hit your set, no way you are getting away from it. This is somewhat of a BBP, but you definatly shouldn't of gotten in the hand PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

How big of a raise would you have called in this situation? If the initial raise was to 800 or to 600 would you have called off 10% or less of your stack or would you have let that go as well because of the EP limper?

[KneeCo]

HoH I, p.231:
[ QUOTE ]
A tough hand that ended up costing you a lot of money. As we've seen before, it was only the inital move into the pot that was a mistake. [...] This hand and many of the others we've seen show how important that intial decision to play the pot really is, and why it's so dangerous to get involved with sub-par starting hands.

[/ QUOTE ]
word.

I agree that your play after the flop is fine, and you were destined to go broke once you made the pf call.

[cferejohn]

[ QUOTE ]
How big of a raise would you have called in this situation? If the initial raise was to 800 or to 600 would you have called off 10% or less of your stack or would you have let that go as well because of the EP limper?

[/ QUOTE ]

10% is a decent rule of thumb. The important thing is you're about 8:1 to hit a set. If you are playing *only* to hit a set, you'd better think you can extract 8x the amount of your call if you hit. You're not always going to be able to bust someone, and sometimes you are going to run into set over set like this (or you'll lose to a flush or straight).

Once you saw that flop, no way in creation you lay it down. When you have the underset, you're going to lose big. But look at it this way: you're going to flop a set over set pretty much just as often, and in that case, you're going to take all the other person's money.

I don't feel that this is what HoH I is talking about. If the initial raiser had made it t600 preflop a call would have been correct and he still would have gone broke after hitting his set.

I think HoH is talking about a hand like KJ calling a preflop raise of t600 and then losing all your chips to AK when the flop comes K high.

While his initial decision to play the pot was wrong it wasn't the initial decision that caused him to go broke.

[KneeCo]

That's a more narrow interpretation then I might take.

I think the lesson here, and in so many other hands is that if you play starting hands in situations where you probably shouldn't be in the pot in the first place you can play the flop, turn and river perfectly and still go broke.

[bweiser8311962]

I'm going to be the first person to agree with your call preflop. You just got unlucky on the flop. Anyone who folds a pocket pair is really weak-tight. Maybe I'm too loose, but I've done well enough in MTTs to justify my saying this. You still have 5K left and that's 25BB. Again, you got unlucky.

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone who folds a pocket pair is really weak-tight. Maybe I'm too loose, but I've done well enough in MTTs to justify my saying this.

[/ QUOTE ]

YSSCKY

You agree with flat calling w/ 5/5 for 13% of stack strictly to hit a set with EP limper still to act? And if EP rams it in, you clap at him as you watch to see which way that 13% of your stack you just pissed away slides? If raise was 3-4bb instead of 5 and you closed the action, it would be different. Here, its an easy PF fold.

[KneeCo]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone who folds a pocket pair is really weak-tight.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you call here with 5s, or 2s for that matter, against a push?