Repopulating the planet, Adam and Eve "zero", & incest.

[sexdrugsmoney]

Assume the following scenario:

A great disaster befalls the planet, apparently killing everyone except a 20 year old British man named Adam and a 18 year old British woman name Evelyn. (but we'll call her Eve for obvious reasons)

Adam and Eve wander England for a while and finally come to the realization that they could be the last humans on earth, as before the TV and radios went out there were reports from BBC World that all of "the new world" was destroyed, but before the Arabs could laugh too hard, so was virtually every other country, even as close as Ireland and Iceland, but remarkably the UK was left untouched - brill.

Despite all electricity gone and millions of dead brits and scots lying in their respective streets/homes, most buildings have been left untouched including supermarkets and shopping malls. Adam and Eve figure they have a good chance of surviving for a few years on the rations, not to mention a nearby paddock has some cows. (convenient huh?)

Anyway, Adam and Eve after clearing a couple of hundred dead corpses from their main holdout (a shopping mall) and burning the bodies on a pyre, decide to repopulate the earth.

They are both white of English stock and not related (that they know of) and after their first child is born "Adam 1" it seems they can breed.

Adam and Eve (hereafter known as Adam 0 and Eve 0) have a total of 6 children, 1 per year before they decide to cool it for a while. (she's tired)

A few years pass and Adam 1 (the firstborn) is 20, Eve 1 (the 2nd born) is 19, Adam 2 = 18, Eve 2 = 17, Adam 3 = 16, Eve 3 = 15.

http://tinypic.com/ejy547.jpg

Adam 0 is now 40, Eve 0 is now 38 - and they know the next step unfortunately is some form of incest, problem is both of them aren't scientists so they don't know who should breed with who to avoid any unecessary homozygocity - ie- keep birth defects both mental and physical to a minimum.

Q. Who breeds with who now, and why?

(eg. Is it preferable for a son to impregnate the mother, the father to impregnate a daughter, or is it better that the brothers and sisters only breed within themselves without parents? Also does age make a difference in any of this?)

http://tinypic.com/ejyaud.jpg

[krimson]

It seems like it would be best for the brothers and sisters to reproduce between themselves.

Each child's genetics is somewhat of a "random" sampling from the genetics of Adam 0 and Eve 0. Therefore there is less chance of homozygocity between the various children, in comparison to a parent and child reproduction.

If Adam 0 were to reproduce with Eve 1, then there is a guarantee that Eve 1 will have genetic traits of Adam 0, increasing the chance of recessive traits coming up and there being defects.

I think the ideal situation would be for each male child to reproduce with each one of his sister's, as many times as possible, and then remove any of the 3rd generation children from the system that show obvious abnormalities.

Then each of those children can reproduce in such a way that they do not share the same parents.

[Rduke55]

Oh no! British people are already horribly inbred. Look at their teeth and jawline.
We're screwed.

[krimson]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh no! British people are already horribly inbred. Look at their teeth and jawline.
We're screwed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Screwed indeed, we'd be dead.

[sexdrugsmoney]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
It seems like it would be best for the brothers and sisters to reproduce between themselves.

Each child's genetics is somewhat of a "random" sampling from the genetics of Adam 0 and Eve 0. Therefore there is less chance of homozygocity between the various children, in comparison to a parent and child reproduction.

If Adam 0 were to reproduce with Eve 1, then there is a guarantee that Eve 1 will have genetic traits of Adam 0, increasing the chance of recessive traits coming up and there being defects.

I think the ideal situation would be for each male child to reproduce with each one of his sister's, as many times as possible, and then remove any of the 3rd generation children from the system that show obvious abnormalities.

Then each of those children can reproduce in such a way that they do not share the same parents.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thankyou for your response krimson, it is a highly appreciated rare commodity indeed to see a topic on SMP that doesn't involve the closed-minded "atheist club vs theist club" neverending war, and even rarer to have it replied to. (strange these supposed "intelligent people" don't wish to discuss other topics that pertain to humanity)

Anyway enough of my grumbling, here is a picture if each group spawned 2 children - 1 boy, 1 girl.

You're intelligent so you'll see how the coding system works, my next question is now who breeds with who, and can Adam zero get involved with one of his grandchildren to 'mix up' the genes or would that be detrimental to the progress the children have made?

http://tinypic.com/ekknwz.jpg

[DougShrapnel]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It seems like it would be best for the brothers and sisters to reproduce between themselves.

Each child's genetics is somewhat of a "random" sampling from the genetics of Adam 0 and Eve 0. Therefore there is less chance of homozygocity between the various children, in comparison to a parent and child reproduction.

If Adam 0 were to reproduce with Eve 1, then there is a guarantee that Eve 1 will have genetic traits of Adam 0, increasing the chance of recessive traits coming up and there being defects.

I think the ideal situation would be for each male child to reproduce with each one of his sister's, as many times as possible, and then remove any of the 3rd generation children from the system that show obvious abnormalities.

Then each of those children can reproduce in such a way that they do not share the same parents.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thankyou for your response krimson, it is a highly appreciated rare commodity indeed to see a topic on SMP that doesn't involve the closed-minded "atheist club vs theist club" neverending war, and even rarer to have it replied to. (strange these supposed "intelligent people" don't wish to discuss other topics that pertain to humanity)

Anyway enough of my grumbling, here is a picture if each group spawned 2 children - 1 boy, 1 girl.

You're intelligent so you'll see how the coding system works, my next question is now who breeds with who, and can Adam zero get involved with one of his grandchildren to 'mix up' the genes or would that be detrimental to the progress the children have made?

http://tinypic.com/ekknwz.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]I would imagine you'd want grandpa to get involved as often as possible to maximize his genes. And grandma as well but only with grandpa. I believe I've read you would want about 300 to 500 people to get a good sample of available genes. You'd be much better off if you started with 1 dude and 2 or 3 chicks.

[sexdrugsmoney]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
I would imagine you'd want grandpa to get involved as often as possible to maximize his genes. And grandma as well but only with grandpa. I believe I've read you would want about 300 to 500 people to get a good sample of available genes. You'd be much better off if you started with 1 dude and 2 or 3 chicks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thankyou Doug for your reply.

Firstly regarding 2-3 chicks, I have thought about this, preferably if one of the women was African to create the largest possible gene-divide, but that scenario is too easy IMO.

Secondly, regarding grandpa, which of his "eve" grandchildren does he breed with to provide the largest possible gene-mix up?

This is another question I originally forgot to ask but here goes:

Is there anything Adam and Eve "zero" can do to speed up evolution and "change" their genes slightly so they could breed with one of their own children?

I'm not sure if there is anything in a chemist which would cause a biological change, can anabolic steroids do it, or even corticosteroids? (though probably negative changes with overuse of both, can they change gene makeup so if Adam &amp; Eve "Zero" made their first child "normal", then both used some medicine(s) found in the chemist (or somewhere else) for a few years and then had another child, could the difference between the children's genes be due to something Adam and Eve "zero" had done either by medicine or even "nature" (say in the years between the firstborn and the secondborn a great blizzard or heatwave struck them, could their genes repsond to create a child with more melatonin or more receptive to Vitamin D because of environmental activities - or is this "timeframe" between two children too small for an evolutionary - assisted or not - change?)

[sexdrugsmoney]

Correction: "5E-2" and "6E-3" should read "5E-1" and "6E-1".

[tek]

In dog breeding it's usually father-daughter...

Don't know if this would be best for humans or not.

[sexdrugsmoney]

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In dog breeding it's usually father-daughter...

Don't know if this would be best for humans or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's very interesting, thankyou. I looked up dog breeding on Wikipedia but it didn't tell me anything.

I did however find this tidbit of info on the Wiki:

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The Rothschilds

Among the descendants of Mayer Amschel Rothschild, the founder of the famous financial and banking family, many of the men married their brothers's daughters or cousins related through the male line.

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I don't know what the genetic effects of an "uncle-niece" offspring are, but perhaps this is the most preferable way for the children in my example to breed? (benkahuna where art thou?)

[CORed]

[ QUOTE ]
In dog breeding it's usually father-daughter...

Don't know if this would be best for humans or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't work for dogs. This is why most purebred dogs are riddled with genetic defects. Inbreeding is good for winning ribbons in conformation shows. If you get a dog that is close to the breed standard. You can easily produce more dogs that are close to the breed standard by inbreeding (dog people prefer to call it linebreeding). It is not, unfortunately, good for producing genetically healthy dogs. If you want a dog that won't bankrupt you with vet bills, get a mutt or a working breed.

[Rduke55]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In dog breeding it's usually father-daughter...

Don't know if this would be best for humans or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's very interesting, thankyou. I looked up dog breeding on Wikipedia but it didn't tell me anything.

I did however find this tidbit of info on the Wiki:

[ QUOTE ]

The Rothschilds

Among the descendants of Mayer Amschel Rothschild, the founder of the famous financial and banking family, many of the men married their brothers's daughters or cousins related through the male line.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know what the genetic effects of an "uncle-niece" offspring are, but perhaps this is the most preferable way for the children in my example to breed? (benkahuna where art thou?)

[/ QUOTE ]

Still bad, but uncle-neice share 25% of genes on average compared to 50% for father-daughter. So, if it's a choice, marry your neice before your daughter if you're going to have kids.
But considering that many states prevent first cousin marriages and they only share 12.5% of genes on average, then it's probably best to avoid any of this, Rothschild's plan aside.

Look at it this way. For a recessive gene disease (where you need 2 disease genes to get he disease) two people carrying one disease gene each have a 25% chance of having a child with two disease genes (and therefore the disease).

So take cystic fibrosis (CF). It is thought that something like one in every 25 or 30 of certain Europeans are carriers (meaning they have one non-CF gene and one CF gene). So just mating with a random person in that population you will have 1/25*1/25 chance they both will have a disease gene (1 in 625). Then they have a 1 in 4 chance that both of them will pass their disease gene on to their child. So a random pairing in this population will have a 1 in 2500 chance of having a child with CF.
However if it's brother and sister if one carries the CF gene then there's a 50% chance the other one does too (unless both parents are carriers - but that's not neccessary to talk about for this idea). So instead of 1/625 it's 1 in 50 that they both carry it which results in 1 in 200 chance of having a CF child instead of 1 in 2500.
For uncle-neice if the uncle's a carrier, the niece has a 25% chance of being a carrier, so 1/100 they both carry it resulting in a 1 in 400 chance to have a CF child. For 1st cousins it's 1 in 800.
This isnt the exact calculations but it should give you the idea.
Someone check my logic here. It's been a long time since I took genetics.