hit trips, pay me kthx

Absolute .10/.25 NL. Hero and Villain are even stacked.

Hero has J/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif
Villain calls $.25, 1 call, Hero raises to $1.25, Villain calls.
Flop: J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif
Villain checks, Hero checks (I've been almost always firing CBs, this is a giveaway to an observant player. My CBs get too much respect however and 60% of the time get folds. I have not shown down a bluff at this table).
Turn: K/images/graemlins/club.gif
Villain bets $2.75, Hero raises $6, villain folds.

Too big of a raise? Checked flop indicates weakness, I put him on turning a flush draw and semi bluffing it. Should I have flat called, because the bet punishes his own EV for a draw? Min raise?

[MTBlue]

He didn't have anything. So he folded. It happens. Next time bet the flop. It makes it easier to get the money in the middle and certainly raise more on the turn.

[stu-unger]

bet flop, bet turn

if u dont bet these flops u r leaving money on the table, and unless u hate money thats a bad thing.

[yvesaint]

yo bet the flop

end of story

check behind flop/raise turn looks like the straight, set, 2-pair, etc., maybe AK

Does it ever make sense to check the current nuts? If he had nothing, he folds, I don't get his semibluff. If I check, sometimes he bluffs and I get that, sometimes he doesn't, nothing lost.

Unless you think the times that he calls the flop and turn bets make up for the times he has nothing and bluffs at it?

If he puts me on (TPTK, 2pair) then he thinks I have a worse hand than I do. That is a good thing, isn't it? It's easier to extract the money when they think you have a lesser hand.

Might the times HE has TPTK or KJ make up for the times I lose a flop call? I'm looking to stack somebody, and trapping a donk with AK or KJ here will far overcome the times I lose a value bet on the flop. At least this is my reasoning. Flawed? explain why please.

[amoeba]

do what you want.

[MTBlue]

You will lose money doing this. Sometimes he will check AA or KK on this flop and the pot will be to small to get all the money in if you check behind. Secondly something like KQ which will fold to your bet on the flop can and will hit a gutshot straight and you will go broke. Other problem is villain could pick up a backdoor draw that stacks you. I know this happens 2-4% of the time but you will remember it when it happens.

The pluses of checking behind is to allow him to hit with his missed overs and then play a big pot. But you will struggle with stacking him due to pot size on the turn. Pot size problems and inability to fold your hand when beaten are the key reasons to always bet this flop.

I will never forget a 200NL hand where I called a raise in the blind with 33 and the flop came 9c 3s 2d. The flop was check around and the turn was a 4h. All hell broke loose. I folded my set to the 3rd raise. Preflop raiser had 999 and the winner had 65. These are the types of problems with checking the flop. If the raiser bets the flop he stacks me. Instead he loses to a gutshot. The guy lost 200 dollar in EV and his stack for a grand total loss of 400 dollars b/c he was using your logic.

Hope this helps.

[Godfather80]

[ QUOTE ]
If he puts me on (TPTK, 2pair) then he thinks I have a worse hand than I do. That is a good thing, isn't it? It's easier to extract the money when they think you have a lesser hand.

Might the times HE has TPTK or KJ make up for the times I lose a flop call? I'm looking to stack somebody, and trapping a donk with AK or KJ here will far overcome the times I lose a value bet on the flop. At least this is my reasoning. Flawed? explain why please.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are gonna make money on this hand, it will be because somebody flopped something and they'll pay you off. Try to get your money in when you're ahead. When you slowplay, you don't force an opponent to make a mistake. And more importantly in NL, your reverse implied odds go through the roof.

You're thinking too hard for the 25's. Bet bet bet.

[swolfe]

[ QUOTE ]
You're thinking too hard for the 25's. Bet bet bet.

[/ QUOTE ]