Beating loose players

I have been playing poker for about 3 years. I have studied the game and have read the books. I have a great home game with players that have done the same and fair very well. In Vermont, large poker tourneys can only be held as fundraisers and 30% of the take in must be given to charity. Head count in usually 100 plus players at $50 - $100 a head. The problem is 80 to 90% of the people that show up have watched poker on TV and think they know how to play. Example : blinds are at 10 - 20 and I am big blind. I have pocket 10's. 5 callers to the blind so I raise to 100. I get one caller. Flop is rainbow with 7, 9, 2 all different suits. I bet 100, He calls. Turn is an 8, still not matching any suits. I bet 200, again he calls. River is a J. I now have the straight, I check, he bets 100 I raise to 300 and he calls. We turn over the cards. I find out he has been calling the whole way with a 10-3 off. Split pot but what was he doing in the hand to begin with? The next hand, the same guy called 150 raise with a 10-4 off and caught a boat against someone eles. How do you beat this kind of play?

[edfurlong]

You beat this kind of game by playing it a ton.

[JacksonTens]

Never complain about T3 calling a $100 raise.

Ever.

Ever again.

JT /images/graemlins/spade.gif

IMO, you have to play a little looser. I tried to the tighten up and be a rock thing, but it just doesn't work. You have to loosen up a little and see flops to try and get lucky.

As soon as a serious poker player with a real reply to my original note can answer, the happier I will be.
Please, only serious answers.
Thank you.

Unless your Doyle Brunson, do not chat to me about 10-3 off.
( Bracelet #10 )

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
As soon as a serious poker player with a real reply to my original note can answer, the happier I will be.
Please, only serious answers.
Thank you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read the Theory of Poker by Divad Salinsky. If you claim you've already read it, read it again.

A serious answer is just keep doing what you are doing. In the long run "YOU MUST WIN, PERIOD"! It's nerve racking I know, but just hang in there.

[EStreet20]

[ QUOTE ]
Example : blinds are at 10 - 20 and I am big blind. I have pocket 10's. 5 callers to the blind so I raise to 100.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, your opponent's play was absolute garbage but you shouldn't complain about losing to bad play. If you ever read TOP you'd know why. Now let's talk about this hand you describe above because THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A STRATEGY FORUM AND NOT A BITCHING AND MOANING SESSION so here's my two cents about your strategy. Raising to 100 with TT in the early stages of a tourney from the big blind after five players have limped is absolutely terrible. I'll let other, more experienced tournament players elaborate as to why.

For now, stop your bitching. If you have a big problem beating loose players then you have a ton to learn (IE "you suck"), even more than me and I'm mediocre at best. So my advice to you is study these forums, don't be a smartass to more experienced and respcted posters who tell you in simple language that right now you suck at poker because it's true (we've all been there). And don't preface half of the things you post with "I've played poker for x-amount of years and have read all the books and have been fairly successful because that usually means you either
A. haven't read the right books
B. Have misapplied what you read.
C. Have never read anything

and in addition to A,B or C also have not been successful.

Hope you don't take offense, just giving you the best advice you've gotten in your poker career to date.

Good luck, study up
Matt

Just sit back and wait for a good spot. Really loose players are often bad. They dont notice that there are three of the same suit on the board and that you could be holding a flush. Or if the board pairs they dont consider full house posibilities againts their flush or st. Wait until you have something rather large and let them call of their money to you. Basically bad players rarely make good lay downsl, so you have to beat them with the cards. You cant bluff a good player they wont even know why they should fold

[Felipe]

You had a mathematical edge the whole time! he had a small chance to beat (or tie) you, you had an overwhelming chance to win the pot. But you tied! C'est poker! C'est la vie. Imagin you're in the desert, and there is a 1% chance its gonna rain. Will it rain? Well, likely not, but it could. It is entirely possible that rain will fall. If it does one cannot wonder why it fell, one must understand that if that scenario ever came up again 100 times, it would rain once in those 100 times. But it can fall, and WILL fall 1 in 100 times. If you have a 99.9 percent chance to win pot, does NOT mean that you will win it every single time. Sometimes - you - will - lose.

I read an interesting article by John Varhause(spelling) He says don't think you deserve to win, don't think that your opponents deserve the bad beats instead of you. You aren't "owed" anything for your special poker prowess. "i'm such a good player? Why can't I beat this idiots?" You can, but you must think of the long term, the long run, and of mathematical probabilites that take many repeated trials to manifest themselves into real profit.

How to blackjack players win money at blackjack? Because they make the right plays that will afford them a positive mathematical expectaion. A player should almost always DBL DOWN to 11, except just hit when dealer shows an A. Say in this instance, the dealer shows a 6 - the worst card s/he could have, meaning money for you! You double your bet, dealer gives you a 2 (13). Dealer flips over a 4, and hits a K to make 20. You lost - but you made the right play. Often the results don't match what you want to happen - but they will, if you keep making the "correct!" decisions.

i'm sleepy - that make sense?

[zephed]

[ QUOTE ]
As soon as a serious poker player with a real reply to my original note can answer, the happier I will be.
Please, only serious answers.
Thank you.

[/ QUOTE ]
The first two answers are perfect. Play in these games a lot, and never complain or berate an opponent for calling a raise with T3o or other crappy hands. This is the best way to make money at poker, have opponents call you when they have little chance to win.

[ QUOTE ]

Raising to 100 with TT in the early stages of a tourney from the big blind after five players have limped is absolutely terrible. I'll let other, more experienced tournament players elaborate as to why.


[/ QUOTE ]

All I have to say is if you don't try to raise x amount based on the amount of players who are trying to "limp", then what your saying is just check the big blind and "hope" you flop trips. If you raise enough your going to be heads up going to the flop, you gotta take some chances. Your also implying if he wasn't in the big blind to just fold or limp as well? OK, it's a tourney, not a ring game so things are different but your in the beginning of the tourney and need to build a BR pretty quick for later rounds. If you were stacked in later rounds and this happened then I agree, you don't need to risk anything. In fact I would just check it with Aces with 5 other limpers but not early on with your buy in chips.

[EStreet20]

[ QUOTE ]
All I have to say is if you don't try to raise x amount based on the amount of players who are trying to "limp", then what your saying is just check the big blind and "hope" you flop trips.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, that's not what I said. I know about standard raises etc and the amount of players in affecting your raise and whatnot. However, early on in a tourney I see no reason to commit much out of position with TT. In a cash game I'd try to raise it up to take down the pot or get one caller but early on in a tourney I'd rather protect my chips, especially out of position like that. In this case, yes I very well might check TT with five limpers. Early in a tourney a lot of players will limp with hands like AJ etc and if you get into a pissing contest with raises early on you can easily cripple yourself. It's best to play premium hands IN POSITION strongly early in a tourney and try to cheaply accumulate chips for later levels.

Good luck,
Matt

I think again a " No nothing " has replied to my e-mail. How do you figure 100 raise is too much. I bet the pot. I do know how to play, I beat great players a lot. I am not " bitching " . I just wanted some real advice about loose play.
Not trying to be a jerk, but I real responces to actual poker players. Not people who are here to insult others.

[CORed]

[ QUOTE ]
Imagin you're in the desert, and there is a 1% chance its gonna rain. Will it rain? Well, likely not, but it could.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I'm camping in that desert, it will rain. Hard. Especially if I decided to just bring a plastic tube tent, instead of a real tent, because it hardly ever rains that time of year in that desert.

How do you figure I was in a bad position. Last to act with 5 limpers is a great spot for a raise. I commited 100 not all my chips. I think some has some reading to do and guess what, it's not me.

[EStreet20]

[ QUOTE ]
I think again a " No nothing " has replied to my e-mail. How do you figure 100 raise is too much. I bet the pot. I do know how to play, I beat great players a lot. I am not " bitching " . I just wanted some real advice about loose play.
Not trying to be a jerk, but I real responces to actual poker players. Not people who are here to insult others.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm apparently a "KNOW nothing" now. Oh well since you claim you "beat great players a lot" this will be my last reply to this thread. BecauseI don't think I've ever beaten a "great player" just lots of people who think they're great. But in regards to my reply...

A. I gave you advice on beating loose players, it was "work on your game and study up."
B. I critiqued your tournament strategy, which yes, I find flawed here judging by the way you described the your play in that hand. Obviously, as I also said, your opponent played it completely wrong, but the fact that you get mad about that leads me to believe you have no understanding of one very important concept that you need to familiarize yourself with, the fundamental theorem of poker. Look it up in between beating great players.

Go get em Tiger,
Matt

[EStreet20]

[ QUOTE ]
How do you figure I was in a bad position.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're out of position on every street post flop, unless only the SB calls you. See my post before about the hands people will limp with early in a tourney.

[EStreet20]

[ QUOTE ]
This is very simple, your an ass.
Do not ever reply to my threads you average player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha I just got this PMed to me by the OP.

I came here via the advice I received from Greg Raymer. I sent an e-mail to his site and received a reply that stated this was a good place for " advice".
You have done nothing but critize my play. I have had some great replies, none coming from you.
You are adding nothing to this forum other than insults and demeaning attitude. Just please don't reply anymore, I am looking for real advice from real players. Not someone looking to cheap shot others.
Thank you.

[waffle]

[ QUOTE ]
what was he doing in the hand to begin with?

[/ QUOTE ]

He was giving you money. You're an excellent player but you don't even know where your edge comes from? And you demand only big names reply to you? Well, WTF are you? Get a grip with reality.

As the answer to your original question: The loose players may be hard to read given only their preflop action, but they are usually pretty transparent post-flop. Study their post-flop tendencies, put them on a range of hands given their post-flop actions, and play poker.

Not " big names " waffle. Real players, people who have taken more time with the game other than just watching on the TV. I enjoyed reading your comment. Thank for your good advice. I didn't come to the sight for insults, just good sound advice. I really do appreciate yours Waffle.
Thanks.

[EStreet20]

Someone please find in my original reply where I berate this player. I gave him the same advice many 2+2ers give and recieve. Get a clue and get over yourself. And btw, I've done a little more with poker than just watch on TV, as you said before.

[billymonk]

The damn Fish!!!!! Loose games RANT! (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=holdem&Number=491819&f part=1&PHPSESSID=)

[zephed]

[ QUOTE ]
I came here via the advice I received from Greg Raymer. I sent an e-mail to his site and received a reply that stated this was a good place for " advice".
You have done nothing but critize my play. I have had some great replies, none coming from you.
You are adding nothing to this forum other than insults and demeaning attitude. Just please don't reply anymore, I am looking for real advice from real players. Not someone looking to cheap shot others.
Thank you.

[/ QUOTE ]
That is the sole reason these forums exist. People post their hands and receive feedback. Standard 2+2 responses are often blunt and sometimes outright rude. That's just how it is, get used to it.

If you don't get ripped apart, you aren't going to take anything to heart and change your game.

You were also the one to fire the first shot. The first two replies were good but you decided to insult them. Go somewhere else like the cardplayer forums if you aren't interested in rigorous debate of poker.

[ResidentParanoid]

1. Make a hand.
2. Keep betting.

[ QUOTE ]
I have studied the game and have read the books.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have proved otherwise by asking this question.

[ QUOTE ]
I have a great home game with players that have done the same and fair very well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do not judge beating up on your two 18 year old buddies as beating the game.

[ QUOTE ]
The problem is 80 to 90% of the people that show up have watched poker on TV and think they know how to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where did you say this took place? Sounds like a gimme.

[ QUOTE ]
5 callers to the blind so I raise to 100 .

[/ QUOTE ]

Mistake.

[ QUOTE ]
Flop is rainbow with 7, 9, 2 all different suits. I bet 100 , He calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mistake #2.

[ QUOTE ]
Turn is an 8, still not matching any suits. I bet 200 , again he calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mistake #3.

[ QUOTE ]
River is a J. I now have the straight, I check, he bets 100 I raise to 300 and he calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mistake #4.

[ QUOTE ]
How do you beat this kind of play?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are this kind of play.

MDoranD

Dude, it sounds like you have just discovered the Skill Gap: where you come to realize that your poker skill is not as great as you thought it was.

But that's far from a slam - every single guy who now regularly posts at 2+2 has probably had that revelation, including Greg Raymer.

Yes, there's good advice and bad advice, but part of that is your fault: it looks like you didn't follow the first rule of internet forums, which is Lurk Before Posting. If you had, you would have quickly learned that there's a forum called Multi-table Tournaments where they focus their discussion on winning tournaments. A General forum will get you, well, general answers. Some of the best MTT forum posters may never see your question in General.

As for the "insults," welcome to the world of internet forums. People are harsh - often they don't even realize it. Your question ("how do I beat these bad players who call down with trash and suck out?") is probably the most-asked question at 2+2, which you also would likely have discovered by lurking. (The answer to your question, BTW, is to reread your poker library, and select specific hands/plays that concern you and post them to the appropriate forum for evaluation.)

Fossilman did not steer you wrong. You just have to learn to use this powerful resource properly.

[ QUOTE ]
Example : blinds are at 10 - 20 and I am big blind. I have pocket 10's. 5 callers to the blind so I raise to 100. I get one caller. Flop is rainbow with 7, 9, 2 all different suits. I bet 100, He calls. Turn is an 8, still not matching any suits. I bet 200, again he calls. River is a J. I now have the straight, I check, he bets 100 I raise to 300 and he calls. We turn over the cards. I find out he has been calling the whole way with a 10-3 off. Split pot but what was he doing in the hand to begin with?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've read through these posts and want to tell you - first of all - that the first few responses to your OP were dead on. I've been where you were and thought the same things. You have to welcome that kind of play, not rip it. Yes, you'll take a beating here or there and wonder why, but more often than not, you'll take their money. This one hand isn't representative of your whole relationship with loose players - it's just one hand. If you're looking for information on how to play against loose players, that's one thing. If you're looking for info on how to play this hand, that's another. And, if that's the case, you need to be more thorough with your hand report. One big thing missing is where the player with 10-3 was? OTB, BB, SB, Cutoff, UTG? Where was this in the tourney? What were your stacks sizes? What was your previous read on this player? If you want help with this hand, help us help you.

Now, playing loose players is frustrating, but it's also very profitable. Just a few pieces of advice:

1) just b/c your starting hand was better doesn't mean they didn't hit the flop better than you
2) value bet, value bet, value bet
3) know how to get away from top pair or an overpair (I still struggle with this)
4) get reads on your opponent's post-flop play

Just a few things on top of what others have said. I understand how you feel about people criticizing your play and/or your post, but that's what people do here - some of them. You either get used to it and try to read through the BS to get the poker advice, or you go elsewhere.

I spend a lot of time at Poker Analysis and found the advice on here was 10x better, but you have to get through some jerks to see it, while PA had a ton of nice people, but only a few really gave good advice.

There's my 2 cents.

It's great position pre flop but you have to consider post flop where you will be out of position. In your case by raising it will help, if you check it on the flop then you kinda give yourself late position to call or check raise. As long as you have a good hand in the BB then don't worry. A good hand is a good hand regardless of position. It's mainly pre flop you don't want to get caught with your pants down calling with crap.

[EStreet20]

[ QUOTE ]
A good hand is a good hand regardless of position.

[/ QUOTE ]

No it's not, if it was then starting hand charts would not take position into consideration.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A good hand is a good hand regardless of position.

[/ QUOTE ]

No it's not, if it was then starting hand charts would not take position into consideration.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, a pair of 10's is no good UTG but OK in late position...whatever. Were talking about TT in particular.

[EStreet20]

TT is a good hand, and I'll play it in any position, and in a cash game I'll definitely raise it in any position. However I wouldn't raise it from the blind after 5 limpers early on in a tourney, which we can assume it is due to the 10-20 blinds the OP talked about. A tournament is a marathon, not a sprint, and as I stated before you could very well be up against EP limpers with AJ, AQ etc, not to mention people dying to limp reraise you from early position with a monster. Obviously if someone Limp reraises you all in or a huge raise, you just throw it away, however you've cost yourself 100 chips early in a tourney, which in a 1000 chip or 1500 chip starting stack equals one tenth or one fifteenth of your chips. Post some questions about how to play this hand in this situation in the MTT forum and see what kind of responses you get.

[ QUOTE ]
Just sit back and wait for a good spot. Really loose players are often bad. They dont notice that there are three of the same suit on the board and that you could be holding a flush. Or if the board pairs they dont consider full house posibilities againts their flush or st. Wait until you have something rather large and let them call of their money to you. Basically bad players rarely make good lay downsl, so you have to beat them with the cards. You cant bluff a good player they wont even know why they should fold

[/ QUOTE ]

Should last statement say "You can't bluff a bad player"?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Raising to 100 with TT in the early stages of a tourney from the big blind after five players have limped is absolutely terrible. I'll let other, more experienced tournament players elaborate as to why.


[/ QUOTE ]

All I have to say is if you don't try to raise x amount based on the amount of players who are trying to "limp", then what your saying is just check the big blind and "hope" you flop trips. If you raise enough your going to be heads up going to the flop, you gotta take some chances. Your also implying if he wasn't in the big blind to just fold or limp as well? OK, it's a tourney, not a ring game so things are different but your in the beginning of the tourney and need to build a BR pretty quick for later rounds. If you were stacked in later rounds and this happened then I agree, you don't need to risk anything. In fact I would just check it with Aces with 5 other limpers but not early on with your buy in chips.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. Don't raise this early with TT. What did he accomplish? He managed to split a pot and just took down the rather minor bets players made pf before they all folded out to the heads up. I think raising TT in this position is -EV. What happens? Someone with overs calls and you're usually in a bind. Yes, raise with wired paint, and raise a ton. Take the pot down NOW. TT is too weak post flop too often.

2. He's getting GREAT odds to make the call here or check here. 5 players to his bet? Set/Quad odds are 7.5:1. If he calls/checks, the he can bet THAT flop and get a couple of more calls/overcalls to build a much better pot. Seems that play, with TT, would have a much better EV.

[ QUOTE ]
I think again a " No nothing " has replied to my e-mail. How do you figure 100 raise is too much. I bet the pot. I do know how to play, I beat great players a lot. I am not " bitching " . I just wanted some real advice about loose play.

Not trying to be a jerk, but I real responces to actual poker players. Not people who are here to insult others.

[/ QUOTE ]

The pf raise with TT is, IMO, a mistake here. You're getting the odds you need to stay in. Trying to push people out with TT here is, again IMO, -EV. TT is NOT that strong a hand unimproved this early in the tournament. You're going to get everyone to fold some very small bets.

With 7.5:1 on the set/quads, call, hope to hit a set or flop all unders. Maybe you let A9 or K9 or J9 stay and they end up calling down to donate to you.

My play in this hand. I check pf. Flop comes, I bet out. Anyone who has hit top pair probably calls/raises. Donkey on the T3 (who I think I may be in love with) calls the raise. I reraise, possibly push all in. At east then, on the split with the T3, we end up spliting the TPTK's bets or stack.

I'm not questioning if I played the hand right. Given that hand again in the same situation, I would play it again. My question was, how do I beat a loose player at my table.
Please, get this through your head E, how do I beat a player like this?
The hand was an example of loose play. Not a question of did I play it right. Obviously, if J,Q,K, OR A come out on the board and someone bets, I have to dump the hand. I know this. With limpers at the table, I could assume that the only Ace at the table has a small kicker.
The only question is, how do you beat loose play?

[ QUOTE ]
what was he doing in the hand to begin with? The next hand, How do you beat this kind of play?

[/ QUOTE ]

With a smile on my face.

/images/graemlins/wink.gif

yes that is what i meant

You punish them on there draws giving them no pot odds which they won't have a clue about. Don't bluff that much and play suited connectors more often even from middle position since you know the flop will be 40-60% avg. Keep pounding on the fish till they go broke and re load.

[ QUOTE ]
The problem is 80 to 90% of the people that show up have watched poker on TV and think they know how to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I fail to see the problem with this.

I think good advice has been said to stick it out.

[EStreet20]

[ QUOTE ]
Given that hand again in the same situation, I would play it again

[/ QUOTE ]

You'd still be wrong, but onto the next thing.

[ QUOTE ]
With limpers at the table, I could assume that the only Ace at the table has a small kicker.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is also wrong. Early in a tourney people will limp AT-AK, I'm dead serious. Enough said.

Now onto your question.

[ QUOTE ]
how do you beat loose play?

[/ QUOTE ]

The smartass answer, easily.

The real answer, wait for a good hand and punish loose players. Once again, if you have to ask this question at all you need to get on reading some good poker books. I'm not talking trash at all, just giving advice. Dump the cocky attitude and try to learn. Believe me, you think you're beating very good players, but if you can't beat loose players then I guarantee you you're fooling yourself about how good these guys you're beating are.

Lastly, I honestly am starting to think this is a troll account because this guy doesn't listen for [censored],

[ZenMusician]

From your tone and "I know it all" position, you really
don't deserve the REALLY GOOD ADVICE and GENUINE
HELP people have offered. I used to know it all too-I
also used to win much less than before studying here.

If you can get through the hazing, the fraternity is worth
more than its weight in clay chips...

seriously...step outside yourself a bit and learn

-ZEN

[ QUOTE ]
The only question is, how do you beat loose play?

[/ QUOTE ]
You seem to have missed this post (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=holdem&Number=3674603&Foru m=,All_Forums,&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=3 667718&Search=true&where=&Name=43840&daterange=&ne werval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=# Post3674603). Your answer was there:

[ QUOTE ]
The answer to your question, BTW, is to reread your poker library, and select specific hands/plays that concern you and post them to the appropriate forum for evaluation.

[/ QUOTE ]

[limitholdemshark]

if this game didnt have luck the best players would never make money because the very bad players wouldn't play.its that simple.when a very bad player beats u by getting a miracle card smile and very gently knock the table and say with no trace of sarcasim"NICE HAND".
Luck is what puts money in my pocket because of all the times my weak opps.call me down 2 the river with a very weak hand or draw and then even wehn they didnt get there miracle card still call me on the river to"KEEP ME HONEST"I lol inside of me while i take down a huge pot that if i was playing tough players would be a small fraction of it.

[ QUOTE ]

1. Make a hand.
2. Keep betting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rinse and Repeat.

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
this is a troll account

[/ QUOTE ]

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not questioning if I played the hand right. Given that hand again in the same situation, I would play it again. My question was, how do I beat a loose player at my table.
Please, get this through your head E, how do I beat a player like this?
The hand was an example of loose play. Not a question of did I play it right. Obviously, if J,Q,K, OR A come out on the board and someone bets, I have to dump the hand. I know this. With limpers at the table, I could assume that the only Ace at the table has a small kicker.
The only question is, how do you beat loose play?

[/ QUOTE ]

Several people have given you the answer. Which part of it don't you understand???

[A_C_Slater]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is a troll account

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]



Yes.

And quite a clever one at that. If he had JJ I wouldn't be convinced, but TT makes it just good enough.

Magnific!

Thank you to all who have replied.
I read some great advice from some of these replies. Others, well lets just say they were about as good a 7-2 off. It is too bad that such I great website can be destroyed by a very few people how have nothing better to do than insult a person they don't even know. What a wonderful life you all lead. Mom and Dad must be proud.
I think in the future I will just read post instead of being insulted by the spinless. Apparently I am a " troll account" anyways, whatever that means.
To those who did reply with honest and skill advice, thank you so much.

[Uppercut]

Anyone who actually complains about a fish that calls his raise with a T3o knows absolutely nothing about winning at poker.

[Uppercut]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not questioning if I played the hand right. Given that hand again in the same situation, I would play it again. My question was, how do I NOT beat a loose player at my table.
Please, get this through your head E, how do I NOT beat a player like this?
The hand was an example of loose play. Not a question of did I play it right. Obviously, if J,Q,K, OR A come out on the board and someone bets, I have to dump the hand. I know this. With limpers at the table, I could assume that the only Ace at the table has a small kicker.
The only question is, how do you NOT beat loose play?

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[CORed]

[ QUOTE ]
I came here via the advice I received from Greg Raymer. I sent an e-mail to his site and received a reply that stated this was a good place for " advice".
You have done nothing but critize my play. I have had some great replies, none coming from you.
You are adding nothing to this forum other than insults and demeaning attitude. Just please don't reply anymore, I am looking for real advice from real players. Not someone looking to cheap shot others.
Thank you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Criticising play is what we do here. If you listen, and lose the defensive attitude, you might learn something. I'm not much of a tournament player, so I won't offer an opinion on how well you played on the hand where you whined about your bad beat, but I will tell you that if you come here and post about how you can't win because the bad players keep sucking out on you:

1. You don't really have a very good understanding of poker and are very likely a bad player yourself.

2. Nobody here will take you very seriously (see #1).

3. You can't control how other people play. You can only control how you play. If you can adjust your play to take maximum advantage of other player's mistakes, you will be a long term winner. If you don't, and make a lot of mistakes yourself, you will win less than you could, break even, or lose money, depending on just how badly you play.

4. Bad players will beat you on individual hands. It's part of the game. It's what keeps the bad players playing. It's useless and stupid to whine about it. If you take your 10 10 against his 10 3 offsuit a few thousand times, you will have a very high proababilty of being a big winner. Tha doesn't mean you will win every time. If you can't handle that, poker is not the game for you.

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I read some great advice from some of these replies. Others, well lets just say they were about as good a 7-2 off. It is too bad that such I great website can be destroyed by a very few people how have nothing better to do than insult a person they don't even know. What a wonderful life you all lead. Mom and Dad must be proud.

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From one newbie to another:

Shut up already. You’re making yourself look like a complete ass.

That is all.

[NoRiverRats]

OMFG - this thread is still going...Just in case this is not a dummy account (no pun) and with all due respect, you essentially got the answer in the first two replies to your post. Subsequent posters have elaborated well.

Play well and play these games as much as you can, compliment these players when they suck out. Don't under any cirmcumstance bitch to or about these players, they are your source of income. You have come to this forum for advice and have gotten the correct advice. The end.

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I came here via the advice I received from Greg Raymer. I sent an e-mail to his site and received a reply that stated this was a good place for " advice".
You have done nothing but critize my play. I have had some great replies, none coming from you.
You are adding nothing to this forum other than insults and demeaning attitude. Just please don't reply anymore, I am looking for real advice from real players. Not someone looking to cheap shot others.
Thank you.

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You want some advice? Here ya go.

1. The posters on this forum are some of the most successful "amateur turning pro" poker players on the internet. It has helped to produce recent WSOP bracelet winners and numerous millionaires. When someone with 500+ posts here replies to your thread, it's usually someone that fits into the category of a "Real Player" . Much moreso than you and I combined, and I'm no slouch myself.

2. People here are blunt and outright. If you can't take harsh constructive criticism I suggest you find another means of getting advice. Not everyone here will candy coat things for your pleasure - in fact very few people will.

3. Your raise in the blind with TT is defninitely a bad move. Sure you're last to act preflop, but post flop you are first to act and a flop of AKx makes your raise for nothing. You WILL get an overcard on the flop fairly often, and bluffing into 5 people with TT in the hole won't win it for you against people you say yourself will chase to the river. Just because on this flop you had an overpair means jack diddly as you are not a psychic and had no clue you'd be be holding an overpair post flop. You got lucky.

4. Just because the fish called you down with T3 doesn't mean you can't beat him. In reality you DID beat him through the whole hand until he got lucky by drawing out his straight. He was making mistakes playing into you the whole hand. There's nothing to complain about here - except a bad beat that happens to the best of us.

5. Berating people on this forum will be a sure way to end your welcome here. We give freely what was given to us and do it for anyone that comes through these doors and asks in a kind and respectful manner. We are not obligated to you, or anyone else, to provide advice for free, especially to whiny beligerent people who simply refuse to beleive that the hundreds of us here that are successful poker players can't be right.

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You beat this kind of game by playing it a ton.

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[arod15]

with patence and a bit a luck poker has a lot of variance....