Backgammon whoring

[kenberman]

a schwag affiliate has a new backgammon site listed. $50 worth of schwag for $50 wagered in backgammon, or something like that.

I haven't played backgammon in years, and even back then I sucked.

I would think that bots would be a big problem in backgammon, given that (I think) there is an optimal solution to most moves, similar to chess.

I love my whoring, and gambling, so I would give it a shot...but should bots or other cheating mechanisms keep me away?

[KingMedicine]

i would love to hear about the current state of backgammon online. are there sites that are reliable enough to be trusted to block the bots?

[junkmail3]

[ QUOTE ]
given that (I think) there is an optimal solution to most moves, similar to chess.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is true.

[timprov]

Backgammon is an interesting look at the future of bots, as often bots are allowed as long as they're honest about it. You can quite easily go to Games Grid and play some of the best bots in the world for actual money if you want to.

Whether this keeps down a bot-pretending-to-be-user problem I don't know.

I'd like a linky; I could use some good bg whoring.

[kenberman]

it's at ecd. (no affiliation with me at all)

[Keith Fellmy]

I tried signing up at Gammon Empire and wasn't allowed. Said I couldn't sign up since I lived in Florida.

[Synergistic Explosions]

I played some backgammon free rolls, it was fun.

My brother plays alot for real money online. He reports no problems with bots. He is a very good money player, but he says most of the good players online are somewhat better than he is on the average. He said he still enjoys it though because it sharpens his game so he can crush his real life opponents later on. He plays for as much as 100 per point in live play. But I think he says he won't play for more than 10 a point online.

I'm seriously going to clear that comp bonus on backgammon myself.

[PygmyHero]

I am also interested in this.

I was hoping someone could recommend a few strategy pages. I'll take anything - if its a good guide for beginners, great, because that's what I am.

Just so there's no understanding - I'm not asking to be lazy. I'm currently searching for guides myself. But I still appreciate any assistance.

[KingMedicine]

yea, who is the sklansky of backgammon in terms of writing for novices? is there one book that i should learn from first.

ANY advice would be greatly appreciated. thx.

[timprov]

[ QUOTE ]
yea, who is the sklansky of backgammon in terms of writing for novices? is there one book that i should learn from first.

ANY advice would be greatly appreciated. thx.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's this guy, Bill Robertie, you might want to check out. Maybe you've heard of him?

[Moneyline]

[ QUOTE ]
yea, who is the sklansky of backgammon in terms of writing for novices? is there one book that i should learn from first.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bill Robertie, the co-author of Harrington on hold 'em and occasional 2+2 poster, wrote what are generally considered to the best backgammon books for beginners. I've been told, however, that the best way to learn backgammon is from the bots themselves.

[Runner Runner]

This is a good site: http://www.bkgm.com/.

Also, with regards to people using bots. I have heard that people using computer programs to find out the optimal play have to take the time to enter the roll, etc... so they wind up playing slower and are easy to spot. Also, there are a lot of players who use the programs to review their games so they wind up spotting and outing the cheaters who are playing at an unbelievably perfect level.

In short, you won't have to worry about bots because their are checks and balances to prevent their use. Also, at the low levels it is doubtful anyone would take the time to use bots.

[jnalpak]

[ QUOTE ]
i would love to hear about the current state of backgammon online. are there sites that are reliable enough to be trusted to block the bots?

[/ QUOTE ]

In the bloomberg wire at the begginning of the week the ceo of Empire Online, Ltd (empire poker) stated they will be launching backgammon for real money. He did not say if it will be on Empire but im sure it will pop up on their acquisistions like noble poker...just a guess.

[Moneyline]

[ QUOTE ]
In the bloomberg wire at the begginning of the week the ceo of Empire Online, Ltd (empire poker) stated they will be launching backgammon for real money. He did not say if it will be on Empire but im sure it will pop up on their acquisistions like noble poker...just a guess.

[/ QUOTE ]

I made a post about this a month or two ago. If you go to Empire's webpage there is a tiny link at the bottom that says "backgammon." The link takes you to 65.com, their new backgammon site.

[IdiotVig]

If you're a complete neophyte, starting with Magriel's Backgammon is a pretty good way to go, then some of Robertie's books.

In terms of an author's entire library, however, Robertie runs the gamut from elementary texts to expert material.

[PygmyHero]

This Magriel book you refer to - I ran a search on Amazon and it came up as Paul Magriel. Is that the same guy who is known as X-22? I think I remember he played backgammon (for anyone who didn't know, many poker players do. Gus Hansen and Dan Harrington are other examples). Anyway, Amazon wanted $25 and up for a copy. No thanks.

But I did just pick up a Robertie book (besides HoH he also does chess books). If this thread still has any interest, I'll let everyone know what I think when I'm done.

[ QUOTE ]
Is that the same guy who is known as X-22?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

Bill Robertie is also a well respected backgammon player/author, so his book should help you a lot.

[PygmyHero]

Thanks for the info on Magriel. I was pretty sure it had to be the same person - there were just too many coincidences.

Of course, I am already familiar with Robertie, and I think my previous post shows this.

In any event, I'm looking forward to reading the book.

If anyone else is still looking over this thread - are there any other websites you've found particularly helpful (there is already one linked in this thread)?

[beset7]

there were some good threads on these subjects, including posts by robertie in "other gambling" about 4 to 6 months ago.

[BigBrother]

I'd like to whore that bonus too if you can point me in the right direction.

Bots aren't that big a problem...most people get uptight and won't play you for $$ if you take a long time to move because then it seems suspicious you might be consulting a bot. As long as play 'flows' (5-10 sec per move max) you shouldn't have anything to worry about....except the fact that most players willing to play for high stakes online are expert level or above.

You need to get GNUBG...awesome learning tool and free:

www.gnubg.org (http://www.gnubg.org)


One of the great things about the bots (Snowie, GNUBG, BGBlitz) is that you can analyse your play afterwards and see your opponents 'error rates'. If they are very low then you can know what you are up against and decide accordingly in the future.


In addition to Tom Keith's site (bkgm.com) you should check out Kit Woolsey's site www.gammonline.com (http://www.gammonline.com) . Kit is an excellent backgammon writer/teacher and the discussion group at that site is the best on the net.

If you are an Internet guy then gammonline is THE way to go. GammonVillage is good also, but it's $50/year to subscribe.

If you are a book guy then Magriel's book & Robertie's books are the way to go. Another awesome book is Walter Trice's BackGammon Bootcamp, which is a book form of a series of weekly columns he did for GammonVillage.

Edit: Best place to get books is from Carol Joy Cole's Backgammon Boutique....she has been supplying the BG community forever,and runs the Flint Michigan club. You can also get Robertie's books directly from GammonPress (Robertie). Careful which Robertie book you get, some of the older ones give outdated advice. I'd recommend Modern Backgammon as his best work...but it's a pretty advanced text. Trice's Boot Camp gets my highest recommendation for the relative newbie up to the advanced player.

[KingMedicine]

thanks for the very informative post, bro.

[PygmyHero]

I finished the Robertie book Backgammon for Winners. It was very good, although extremely basic. It laid out the rules (which I was grateful for since I didn't know them), and hit on some basic concepts. I think its improved my game dramatically already (though I'm still terrible).

It talks about what to do with the opening roll (if you win the toss), but doesn't give many specific guidelines for throws after that. I know bg is too dynamic to have hard and fast rules for every throw, but I feel like I'm still as helpless as ever if my roll is really ugly and inconvenient.

And like all rank beginner books, the sample games are a little bit too convenient. I understand that the players are throwing what they're thowing to illustrate a certain strategy aspect, but I feel like this is always taken a bit too far. I would like to see some decisions in really sub-optimal situation, but I guess that'll have to wait for another book.

Anyway, as I said, a very solid introduction. Clearly I'm ready to play for some serious money now. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Is anyone else doing the BG65 comp? If so, PM me, maybe we can get together for a low stakes match. And I do mean low - like $0.25-$0.50 per point. I'm not interested in making money a major part of this, I'm just hoping to get my feet wet and start meeting the comp requirement.