Flop play and beyond? $25 Party PLO8

[kurto]

Here's another situation where I'm clueless...

I have AK24 ss in middle position. I call a small raise from EP LAG who raises nearly every hand and autobets the flop whenever he does. 3-4 others call the raise as well.

FLOP - A33

The PFR bets the pot. My play is? Automuck?

[Wintermute]

Let me get this straight. This guy raises *every* hand preflop, and then fires a pot-sized continuation bet *every* time? AND you have nut low draw w/ TPTK. And now you want not only to fold, but to "automuck"?


Ahem.




http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a283/pfriedbe/6cab8a0f.jpg

[got0uts]

Call, but no need to raise.

[Cooker]

I think part of the problem is that there are still 3-4 players to act behind him. I almost certainly call and see what happens since I expect my nut low draw to be good for half the pot most of the time. Heads up I would often raise here against the type of LAG described, but with several people left behind me that could easily hold a 3, I am being somewhat cautious (although not fold or automuck cautious).

[kurto]

Slow down with the insults. I don't think this is as straightforward as that, is it?

Where am I off here? There are 3-4 other people in the hand to act after me. Its not unreasable that PFR has a 3 and, if he doesn't, its highly like that one of the 3-4 people to act after me have one. So its very unlikely that I much of a chance at getting high.

Furthermore, I'm way out of position. If anyone acting after me has a 3 (especially an A3), its going to be very expensive for me to draw to my low...

Furthermore, when I make the low, a percentage of the time, I'm going to be quartered.

I understand if I'm heads up, that you play it differently... but this is still an autocall with 3-4 people acting after me?

Its not just the PFR I'm concerned about (who may or may not have a 3), its the other 3-4 players who will be in the hand as well.

I can understand if there's an argument to go forward, but I don't think not wanting to play a large pot, out of position, with only a one way draw (which a percentage of the time will get me quartered) on a paired board qualifies for "f*cking gay". Am I being unreasonable? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Drizztdj]

Do you really put a serial PFR on 234X?

Does he fold when someone re-pops him?

[Wintermute]

Folding is tight-weak. Simple as that. In fact, I would've reraised the pot preflop without a shred of doubt. Get it heads up against this LAG when you have position and a premium hand.

With 3-4 behind you, I'd raise here 50% of the time and call 50% of the time. Or so. Depending on personalities.

If you're seeking reinforcement of a tight-weak strategy that has extremely low variance, FCP forum will help you with that. Nothing wrong with it, but you're just trading win rate for reduced variance. Suboptimal, but calm.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
Folding is tight-weak. Simple as that.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's fine. That's all you needed to say. I've been playing NLHE for a few years and do well, but I've only been playing O8 regularly for half a dozen weeks or so. I have no problem pushing strongly with decent draws and such... but the paired board here confused me and made me question whether I should be in this hand or not.

"In fact, I would've reraised the pot preflop without a shred of doubt." That's the other thing I'm confused about... is this hand better against one player or many? What's a better drawing hand vs HU hand. This is why I'm never sure whether to reraise or not. (Except when shortstacks are raising... I isolate to get them headsup a lot if I can get their stack in pf)

[ QUOTE ]
If you're seeking reinforcement of a tight-weak strategy that has extremely low variance, FCP forum will help you with that. Nothing wrong with it, but you're just trading win rate for reduced variance. Suboptimal, but calm.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure what FCP is. I'm not seeking reinforcement of any strategy. I'm trying trying to learn the intricacies of this game.

I thought that one didn't want to risk a huge portion of their stack without scoopability. I thought because I didn't have a 3, I might be foolish to stick around. I'm just trying to learn here. If I'm wrong, that's cool... I'm here to learn from the better and more experienced players.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you really put a serial PFR on 234X?


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not putting him on 234... I'm only acknowledging that he COULD have a 3... and that there are 3-4 people after me, one of which likely has a 3. In which case, I'm not a strong candidate for the high end. Therefore, am I foolish to draw OOP for the lowend in a hand that, if anyone has a 3, is going to get real expensive quick.

Hey, if this is a bad fold, I'm cool with that... I just want to understand why.

AND... if I call, and someone else pot reraises it, is this a hand I want to get my stack in on the flop? (My other question/problem is... I don't have a plan. What if I call and everyone else does and a card like a 10 falls and PFR goes all in... am I still in?... as you can see, the paired 3 confuses me)

[ QUOTE ]
Does he fold when someone re-pops him?

[/ QUOTE ]

It varies. He seems good enough postflop to know whether to proceed with his semibluffs or not. A number of people have tried to make moves at him at the wrong time and he has a very healthy stack. (Also, because he steals a lot and has been lucky) His first bet means nothing,... but he's not an idiot.

In this hand... I would say he has at least an ace. If someone played back, he would only call if he had pocket Aces (unlikely) or he had some kind of lowdraw. But he steals a lot because if no-one has a 3, everyone would fold.

It has been uncanny that nearly everytime someone has taken a stand... he's had it.

[Wintermute]

[ QUOTE ]
"In fact, I would've reraised the pot preflop without a shred of doubt." That's the other thing I'm confused about... is this hand better against one player or many? What's a better drawing hand vs HU hand. This is why I'm never sure whether to reraise or not. (Except when shortstacks are raising... I isolate to get them headsup a lot if I can get their stack in pf)

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree that this hand might play better multiway. But when you are dealing with a maniac, and it sounds like you are, then isolating is the best tactic IMO.