I warn you, don't watch this video (anti-fur vid)

[DavidC]

Before you watch this video, please read what I'm going to say. bad video (http://www.strasbourgcurieux.com/fourrure/spanish.php)

This is a video of animals being skinned in preparation from being turned into fur coats.

Now, before I saw this, I wasn't against fur coats. I mean, if you breed animals for the purpose of having fur coats, then it's kinda the same as breeding them for food.

However, in this video, it shows animals being skinned alive, being very much conscious of the process of being skinned, and being discarded, after being skinned, while still alive (not being killed mercifully).

I'd always wondered how they had fox-heads in fur coats, paws, etc. I mean, didn't they kill the animals by shooting them / slitting their throats before they skinned them?

Apparently not, I guess.

If this is what truly happens, then this sort of thing should be stopped. It's not decent, basically. I don't know what to say other than that.

My only concern here is that this may be a "propaganda film", and that this may not be the general truth about the process that these animals go through before/during being skinned.

Does anyone on here have any actual knowledge of this field that can be backed up by a source other than this video?

Any comments if you do choose to watch the video? (I again state that this is a really graphic video, you probably don't want to see it.)

--Dave.

[daryn]

i personally see no problem with the fur industry. just think back to the old days.. way back. people would just kill animals and use them for fur, meat, whatever. it's not my bag to torture animals for thier fur, or for any reason, but if people want fur, there are animals out there with it, i think they have a right to get it (sadly).

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
i personally see no problem with the fur industry. just think back to the old days.. way back. people would just kill animals and use them for fur, meat, whatever. it's not my bag to torture animals for thier fur, or for any reason, but if people want fur, there are animals out there with it, i think they have a right to get it (sadly).

[/ QUOTE ]

I see. Since they did it in the "old days" it must be alright.

I'm off to buy a slave now.

[FouTight]

I'm not going to watch this, but is this a PETA project? They use sensationalism a lot and most of it isn't common place, it's true, but not typical.

I have leather, lots of leather, I always assumed it came from calls that were being killed for meat, is this the case, does anybody know? You never hear people complain about leather, so I always figured it was good use of an existing biproduct.

[Tailgunner]

The truth. (http://www.furcommission.com/news/newsF08q.htm)

While I'm not saying this never happens, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to risk damage to your valuable skin by letting it struggle while you attempt to claim it.

It wouldn't be the first time anti-cruelty/murder/abortion activists have resorted to using the very techniques they claim to be against to support their cause.

I'm not making a plea or offering an opinion for either side, but the cruelty of mankind is, without question, unmatched in this world.

<font color="teal">~TG</font> /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[daryn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i personally see no problem with the fur industry. just think back to the old days.. way back. people would just kill animals and use them for fur, meat, whatever. it's not my bag to torture animals for thier fur, or for any reason, but if people want fur, there are animals out there with it, i think they have a right to get it (sadly).

[/ QUOTE ]

I see. Since they did it in the "old days" it must be alright.

I'm off to buy a slave now.

[/ QUOTE ]

you're making an argument (sarcasically) that i never made.

anyway by old days i was talking about way back when you had to kill to survive.

[Tailgunner]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not going to watch this, but is this a PETA project?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a Swedish group's effort picked up by PETA.

Without a doubt this sort of thing happens, but I don't believe it is a common practice, or as widespread as they would like you to believe.

And yes, staged or not, the film was quite ghastly.

<font color="teal">~TG</font>

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
i personally see no problem with the fur industry. just think back to the old days.. way back. people would just kill animals and use them for fur, meat, whatever. it's not my bag to torture animals for thier fur, or for any reason, but if people want fur, there are animals out there with it, i think they have a right to get it (sadly).

[/ QUOTE ]

Daryn cmon. who cares what they did in the old days.

[Lazymeatball]

As you stated in your post, you should be more concerned about the source of this video. Your link takes me to some weird Spanish (I presume) language site, with a video that is introduced by weird asian (I presume) characters. The spanishness of this website adds a shady factor of maybe a 4, ie. it is 4 times more shady than the average english language website dealing with the same content. The asian characters of the video add a shady factor of about 20, as in any video that's from asia is at least 20 times more shady than a video from the United States or Canada. So already this source is about 80 times more shady than it's English speaking north american counterpart, and when you add in the factor that these Animal rights people are generally a bunch of kooks to begin with, this is a pretty poor source.

Basically, Hollywood stars are not walking around with coats made of racoons slayed by Ahn Jung-Hwan in Nam Dinh.

[Tailgunner]

[ QUOTE ]
anyway by old days i was talking about way back when you had to kill to survive.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the thing.. just as in nature today animals will consume each other alive, lay eggs so the larva can devour them alive, etc. The difference is that is about survival and the propagation of the species, we do it to look good.

I don't have a wholesale objection to the fur industry, or any consumption of animal products... it's the methods and the demand I despise. Nature can be unbelieveably cruel. Mankind is unnecessarily cruel.

<font color="teal">~TG</font>

[daryn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i personally see no problem with the fur industry. just think back to the old days.. way back. people would just kill animals and use them for fur, meat, whatever. it's not my bag to torture animals for thier fur, or for any reason, but if people want fur, there are animals out there with it, i think they have a right to get it (sadly).

[/ QUOTE ]

Daryn cmon. who cares what they did in the old days.

[/ QUOTE ]


maybe i used the wrong terms. i am talking about cavemen

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
i personally see no problem with the fur industry. just think back to the old days.. way back. people would just kill animals and use them for fur, meat, whatever. it's not my bag to torture animals for thier fur, or for any reason, but if people want fur, there are animals out there with it, i think they have a right to get it (sadly).

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not so much THAT they get it (I'm rather indifferent to this), but rather HOW they get it.

I'd like to see these animals killed somehow before being skinned.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i personally see no problem with the fur industry. just think back to the old days.. way back. people would just kill animals and use them for fur, meat, whatever. it's not my bag to torture animals for thier fur, or for any reason, but if people want fur, there are animals out there with it, i think they have a right to get it (sadly).

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not so much THAT they get it (I'm rather indifferent to this), but rather HOW they get it.

I'd like to see these animals killed somehow before being skinned.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've read before that the animals are usually euthanized before they're skinned. I'm not going to watch the video, but I imagine it is from some third-world backwoods operation that doesn't have to follow any guidelines or laws. The PETA folks will make it seem like this is standard practice, though.

[daryn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i personally see no problem with the fur industry. just think back to the old days.. way back. people would just kill animals and use them for fur, meat, whatever. it's not my bag to torture animals for thier fur, or for any reason, but if people want fur, there are animals out there with it, i think they have a right to get it (sadly).

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not so much THAT they get it (I'm rather indifferent to this), but rather HOW they get it.

I'd like to see these animals killed somehow before being skinned.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've read before that the animals are usually euthanized before they're skinned. I'm not going to watch the video, but I imagine it is from some third-world backwoods operation that doesn't have to follow any guidelines or laws. The PETA folks will make it seem like this is standard practice, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, i agree with this

[FouTight]

[ QUOTE ]
The truth. (http://www.furcommission.com/news/newsF08q.htm)

While I'm not saying this never happens, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to risk damage to your valuable skin by letting it struggle while you attempt to claim it.

It wouldn't be the first time anti-cruelty/murder/abortion activists have resorted to using the very techniques they claim to be against to support their cause.

I'm not making a plea or offering an opinion for either side, but the cruelty of mankind is, without question, unmatched in this world.

<font color="teal">~TG</font> /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, I'm not saying this isn't the truth either, but, this is just the othersides argument, this isn't the "TRUTH". Both of these are spun like a top.

These are both biased opinions.

Anyways, how about my leather, where does that come from?

[PocketJokers72]

[ QUOTE ]

Anyways, how about my leather, where does that come from?

[/ QUOTE ]

By and large, leather is the by-product of already dead cattle. Mostly from the meat industry.

FWIW, cattle are killed before they are butchered. They herd them through a little series of gates, they get locked in one at a time, and either a very sharp rotary razor slices through the neck, or a very powerful air hammer hits them between the eyes to kill them. Both methods are quick.

[Tailgunner]

[ QUOTE ]
this is just the othersides argument, this isn't the "TRUTH". Both of these are spun like a top.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, they offer an educated opinion that they believe it may have been staged (and it is indeed suspicious), but they do not take a definitive stand either way. They simply provide the evidence at hand, which is as much truth as you're likely to find about this video.


[ QUOTE ]
Anyways, how about my leather, where does that come from?

[/ QUOTE ]

Leather (http://www.leathertown.com/info_mk_leather.htm)

Most of the skins are obtained after the animal is stunned and bled.

<font color="teal">~TG</font> /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[FouTight]

Okay, I appreciate your efforts, and don't doubt the truth, you REALLY have to stop getting your facts from the industries themselves.

It's like watching Fox News.

[JackWilson]

[ QUOTE ]
i personally see no problem with the fur industry. just think back to the old days.. way back. people would just kill animals and use them for fur, meat, whatever. it's not my bag to torture animals for thier fur, or for any reason, but if people want fur, there are animals out there with it, i think they have a right to get it (sadly).

[/ QUOTE ]

There are so many things wrong with this post...I don't even know where to begin. The thing that really struck me though is that you seem to have completely ignored the OP's concerns about the manner in which these animals are skinned.

[Bubu]

Unfortunately I have seen another similar video to this which
was made in another non-asian country. Most of the animals are
apparently dead or unconcscious before skinning. Ghastly,
they don't seem to mind working on the conscious animals.
The other video was short and seemed unedited. Terrible.

Why ?
Is there any need to obtain the fur from the live animal ? As far as quality is concerned ? It would take just a few seconds
to knock the animal out. And it would make it easier to work.


Ok, this is happening in a non first world's (unregulated ?) industry. But how much of our fur comes from abroad. As far as I can tell, many coats require exotics which I don't think we farm here. It's all supply and demand modulated by education.
Personally it seems wasteful to kill an animal for its fur. Don't mind killing rabbits or cows as much as we also consume the meat.

[Hamish McBagpipe]

One of the places I represent (I'm a Union Business Agent) is a slaughterhouse. Pigs and cows. Also, in a "salting" gig a few years ago, (where a union sends me to work in a place to try to unionize it from within) I worked for a month in Kosher Poultry Slaughterhouse on the killing floor. Quite the horrorshow. Although I don't have direct experience about a skinning plant or operation just for fur, I'll tell you there is some crazy crap going on in some of these more industrial-style places.

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, cattle are killed before they are butchered. They herd them through a little series of gates, they get locked in one at a time, and either a very sharp rotary razor slices through the neck, or a very powerful air hammer hits them between the eyes to kill them. Both methods are quick.

[/ QUOTE ]

The slaughterhouse where I represent some employees (not the actual killing floor guys, though they have to do some work there) sometimes get bison to kill for buffalo burgers or whatever. So, because the bison has a big plate of bone for butting on its forhead they have to fire and fire and fire that gun into its head before it goes down. Pathetic.

Also, my guys tell me, though I did not belief this one for a while, that when they get veal calves they don't kill them the usual way as described above. They beat them to death with bats.

Also, the cows, who have similiar tear ducts to humans, cry when they are in the chutes, on their way to get the hammer, probably smelling the blood. Jesus. The pigs are eerily smart as well. Like it or not, most of the people who work there would tell you they know what's going on. Even if you think that the supposition that the animal's know what's going on is bs ...try taking a look at the whole production line when you get a chance. It ain't pretty.

At the chicken place the Rabbis cut the chickens neck and they strangled or bled to death, not rendered to bits like what I think they do in a regular place. When we did a shipment of turkeys it was a [censored] nightmare because once the Rabbi cuts the turkey's neck I had to walk over to like a big upside down milkshake container, throw it upside down where it would bleed to death. Well, once it had its throat slashed, an occassional turkey would take exception to this insult and start flipping out and beat you with its wings. It's a strange thing to see a bloody turkey thrashing down the street (it was like a drive-in for the trucks) with a couple of guys dressed like lab technicians chasing it.

I'm quite pro-animal rights but, believe me, you get pretty blase about the whole thing after the first hundred animals you disembowel.

Sure, a situation where any animal suffers as it is being killed for any purpose; meat, fur, vivisection, etc; is an abomination in my eyes, and I've been talking more about the more "humane" factory killing floors, but for most non-wild animals I think any killing is a mercy due to the conditions that they live, are treated, and are transported.

Lastly, PETA was recently going around with a portable billboard on a truck with one half a picture of piled bodies from the holocaust and the other half a pile of dead swine with the caption "The final indignity." here (http://www.joesabia.com/images/hol4.jpg)

Although I'm sure they think of their cause as a kind of crusade, this kind of comparison is beyond the pale.

What's for lunch?

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
maybe i used the wrong terms. i am talking about cavemen

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.chrisbrimelow.com/cavemen.jpg

http://www.coba.unt.edu/img/geico.gif

[-Skeme-]

[ QUOTE ]
anyway by old days i was talking about way back when you had to kill to survive.


[/ QUOTE ]

How is this even relevant? We don't need to kill to survive nowadays.

[FouTight]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
anyway by old days i was talking about way back when you had to kill to survive.


[/ QUOTE ]

How is this even relevant? We don't need to kill to survive nowadays.

[/ QUOTE ]

WE don't have to, because we pay someone to do it for us, and, in return, we do something else to contribute to society, which we are financially rewarded for.

I'm not going to live in a world without meat!

[-Skeme-]

We're not talking meat, we're talking fur. We don't need fur to survive, you can go to a store and BUY clothes.

[FouTight]

well, we are kinda talking about meat and fur now.

But yes, if something is killed for meat, I definately think it's better to use it's hide.

If you kill something for it's hide, you better sure as hell eat it's meat.

To kill something for it's skin and waste the rest, thats not in good spirits.

[JihadOnTheRiver]

this is pretty gross. and i'm a republican...

Man that's pretty sick. I tried to watch the whole thing but had to shut it down the third time that guy stepped on that animals neck. Just sick.

[Hamish McBagpipe]

I actually haven't seen it, but is there sound? The screams of the animals is usually pretty bad.

[ QUOTE ]
this is pretty gross. and i'm a serial murderer ...

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[JihadOnTheRiver]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is pretty gross. and i'm a serial murderer ...

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[/ QUOTE ]
Reference to me personally? Or republicans?

[Army Eye]

I never understood these videos... why wouldn't they kill the animals first? It clearly makes the process much more difficult, the animals violently flailing about as their skin is torn off. Kill the thing you idiots.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is pretty gross. and i'm a serial murderer ...

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[/ QUOTE ]
Reference to me personally? Or republicans?

[/ QUOTE ]

Neither. A joke meaning that even serial murderers may find this video shocking.

[wacki]

I didn't know it was possible for skinless creatures to still move around.

unreal

[BusterStacks]

I like fur because it's soft, feels nice, and looks cool. I don't really give a [censored] where it comes from. btw, my coat has coyote fur on the hood. it rules.

[bholdr]

why is it, for example, when someone sez: "damn this smells bad!" that we are bizarrely compelled to smell it?

i wish i hadn't seen that.

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
I like fur because it's soft, feels nice, and looks cool. I don't really give a [censored] where it comes from. btw, my coat has coyote fur on the hood. it rules.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's an excellent attitude to have.

[newhizzle]

dude, this is one of the most disturbing and [censored] up things ive ever seen!

i seriously do not see the point of not just killing the animals first, this [censored] is rediculous, ive never been against fur, but i really think the process they use in this video is wrong

thats about all i have to say

Yeah that was horrible. I can't believe that thing was still alive with no skin. I'm assuming they die shortly though, as they may bleed to death or have a heart attack or something. Plus it's no like those guys will feed them.

That was probably the sickest thing I've ever seen in my young 26 years. I guess I'm lucky that I haven't seen anything worse than that.

[Bubu]

New vid. This is from peta showing how cats and dogs are skinned in China presumably for export. The animals are not shown being skinned alive.

http://leenks.com/link26120.htm

Nice link.

Im the last guy who would give PETA the time of day, but I did find the video disturbing. The animals should clearly have been properly euthanized. Im surprised they didnt stun them with the head smashing, then slit their throats. That is a humane, low cost way to euthanize the animals.

[Sephus]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah that was horrible. I can't believe that thing was still alive with no skin. I'm assuming they die shortly though, as they may bleed to death or have a heart attack or something. Plus it's no like those guys will feed them.

[/ QUOTE ]

for some reason i found this hilarious.