Et tu, Brute?

[MelK]

Brutus, one of the conspirators and assassins of Julius Caesar has a bad reputation in history. But why? Wasn't he trying to save the Roman Empire from dictatorship? Had they succeeded in preserving the Senate as the dominant power, wouldn't Rome have been better off than with later Emperors such as Caligula, Nero, and others?

What do you think?

[Saddlepoint]

Yeah that second poll's fair.

[samjjones]

Caesar Augustus should win #2 in a landslide. Re: #1, the Senate had become too bloated and corrupt...IMO, Caesar was a good thing.

[sexdrugsmoney]

Finally OOT is getting some class. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[MelK]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah that second poll's fair.

[/ QUOTE ]

You see how I get all the dumb people to vote for Commodus and then get an accurate poll among the rest?

Uhh...
I mean all the smart people vote for Commodus.

Hail Commodus!

My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius.

[sexdrugsmoney]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can I use the tú form with you? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Mr_J]

Also, Julius Ceaser was never emperor.

[sexdrugsmoney]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
Also, Julius Ceaser was never emperor.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you know Julius Caesar was having a homosexual relationship with King Nicomedes?

Tell your friends. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[swede123]

[ QUOTE ]

Did you know Julius Caesar was having a homosexual relationship with King Nicomedes?


[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't that what Brokeback Mountain is about?

Swede

[man]

I took a survey course on roman history freshman year just so that I could contribute to discussions like this. seriously, all I wanted to do was sound smart. but it's now clear to me that that class did nothing for me. I don't even remember most of the emporers on that list. where's my tacitus when I need it.

wasn't marcus aurelius one of the last good emporers? I voted for him but I clearly don't have any idea what's going on.

[sexdrugsmoney]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />

Did you know Julius Caesar was having a homosexual relationship with King Nicomedes?


[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't that what Brokeback Mountain is about?

Swede

[/ QUOTE ]

Haven't seen it but unless this relationship with Nicomedes took place in 1963 in Wyoming, I'm guessing no. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[sexdrugsmoney]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
I took a survey course on roman history freshman year just so that I could contribute to discussions like this. seriously, all I wanted to do was sound smart. but it's now clear to me that that class did nothing for me. I don't even remember most of the emporers on that list. where's my tacitus when I need it.


[/ QUOTE ]

You have "Cicer0wned" yourself.

[man]

[ QUOTE ]
You have "Cicer0wned" yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]
eu manus, canicula /images/graemlins/grin.gif

(canicula actually means "little bitch," and it's the first word I got when I got when I searched for "sir." and it's so funny to me that there is a word for that that I had to use it.)

[sexdrugsmoney]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
You have "Cicer0wned" yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]
eu manus, canicula /images/graemlins/grin.gif

(canicula actually means "little bitch," and it's the first word I got when I got when I searched for "sir." and it's so funny to me that there is a word for that that I had to use it.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Thankyou for your translation, unfortunately I only speak a little of the vulgar Latin variety known as Spanish, and not the Latin you "gods" of Rome speak amongst yourself. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[man]

it's ok. you can't all be gods. &lt;yawn&gt; I'm gonna go hurl lightning bolts at the plebeians.

(actually I've never even taken a course in latin /images/graemlins/grin.gif)

[ScottyP431]

I think the tu form is a little to informal for the man whos trying to assasinate you

[sexdrugsmoney]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
I think the tu form is a little to informal for the man whos trying to assasinate you

[/ QUOTE ]

"Y Usted Brute" /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[bholdr]

This question is WAY too complicated to be answered in the form of a poll, and not only because the qualitative factors are not clearly defined, but...

brutus: supposedly a roman comitted to the 'democratic' process that was taken for a ride by the power hungry cassius and company, duped into the belief that their actions was something other than a power grab by the rich elite.

Ceaser: roman leader that hads REFUSED an offering of a crown/dictatorship- thus the idea that he was killed to preserve democracy is a BS cover for the disposessed powerful aristocrats like the conspiritors that were being marginalized by J's growing influence...

Agustus (octavian): brilliant statesman and general, far, far better for rome than democracy, ceaser, brutus, M antony cassius, or any other potential leader. garuenteed rome's dominance for centuries. had degenerate children/descendants- too bad.

rome: never really a democracy anyway.

Hadrian, Trajen, constantine, etc: good emperors, garunteed that the latin/western tradition would dominate european power structures for centuries

Nero, calugia, tiberius, etc: bad emperors


and so on...

[sexdrugsmoney]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
This question is WAY too complicated to be answered in the form of a poll, and not only because the qualitative factors are not clearly defined, but...

brutus: supposedly a roman comitted to the 'democratic' process that was taken for a ride by the power hungry cassius and company, duped into the belief that their actions was something other than a power grab by the rich elite.

Ceaser: roman leader that hads REFUSED an offering of a crown/dictatorship- thus the idea that he was killed to preserve democracy is a BS cover for the disposessed powerful aristocrats like the conspiritors that were being marginalized by J's growing influence...

Agustus (octavian): brilliant statesman and general, far, far better for rome than democracy, ceaser, brutus, M antony cassius, or any other potential leader. garuenteed rome's dominance for centuries. had degenerate children/descendants- too bad.

rome: never really a democracy anyway.

Hadrian, Trajen, constantine, etc: good emperors, garunteed that the latin/western tradition would dominate european power structures for centuries

Nero, calugia, tiberius, etc: bad emperors


and so on...

[/ QUOTE ]

Some people blame Constantine and his conversion to Christianity for the fall of the Roman Empire, what do you say bholdr?

[ChipWrecked]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think the tu form is a little to informal for the man whos trying to assasinate you

[/ QUOTE ]

"Y Usted Brute" /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Where's my tip?

[PoBoy321]

I voted Brutus/Aurelius. What I find most interesting about this poll, however, is that I'm a classics major and can't think of anything to say /images/graemlins/confused.gif.

[El Barto]

How can you not vote for Hadrian? He like built the Great Wall of China.

/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[PoBoy321]

Meh. Hadrian wasn't terribly involved in the daily affairs of the empire, spent nearly half of his reign outside of Italy and made a very concerted effort to Hellenize Rome and its provinces.

[bholdr]

three things:

-the emperor Trajen was in power as rome reached it's territorial zenith... To the point of his conquests in eastern europe, aspiring roman leaders financed their rise to power through conquest. his successor, hadrian, actually gave up some territory in order to create more defensable borders. he realized that rome, due to mainly logistical and economic factors, couldn't continue to grow indefinitly... there was hardly anything else of value left to plunder... of course:

-the brutality of roman sport was, in part, designed by the rulers to keep the people of the city strong and conditioned to war and bloodshead, and those sports generally trailed off as and because christianity became more powerful... but, also,

-Ceaser, Octavian, Trajen, Hadrian and a couple others were gifted, brilliant generals, on a level with kublai kahn, tamerlane, cao cao, napolean (R.E Lee, too, imo) etc... maybe it was a lack of military talent, coupled with complacency and more advanced/skilled/numerous enemies that all came together to destroy the empier. nobody really knows, and though christianity may have played a part in the fall, imo it was definitly not the dominant factor.


just a thought: you wanna learn about an empire that's survived all of the last 2200 years, learn about china... by the time of ceaser, chinese generals had assembled armies numbering in the hundreds of thousands... china was greater than rome by almost any objective measure.

[sexdrugsmoney]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
three things:

-the emperor Trajen was in power as rome reached it's territorial zenith... To the point of his conquests in eastern europe, aspiring roman leaders financed their rise to power through conquest. his successor, hadrian, actually gave up some territory in order to create more defensable borders. he realized that rome, due to mainly logistical and economic factors, couldn't continue to grow indefinitly... there was hardly anything else of value left to plunder... of course:

-the brutality of roman sport was, in part, designed by the rulers to keep the people of the city strong and conditioned to war and bloodshead, and those sports generally trailed off as and because christianity became more powerful... but, also,

-Ceaser, Octavian, Trajen, Hadrian and a couple others were gifted, brilliant generals, on a level with kublai kahn, tamerlane, cao cao, napolean (R.E Lee, too, imo) etc... maybe it was a lack of military talent, coupled with complacency and more advanced/skilled/numerous enemies that all came together to destroy the empier. nobody really knows, and though christianity may have played a part in the fall, imo it was definitly not the dominant factor.


just a thought: you wanna learn about an empire that's survived all of the last 2200 years, learn about china... by the time of ceaser, chinese generals had assembled armies numbering in the hundreds of thousands... china was greater than rome by almost any objective measure.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting stuff bholdr, I have Gibbon's "Decline and fall..." but I haven't had time to tackle it personally, as I have a book that apparently says Rome established a colony in western China, I believe it's called the black horse odyssey - once again, untackled.

Cheers,
SDM

[diebitter]

You forgot Claudius. He was pretty darn good.