Reads when 4+ tabling

[housenuts]

what sort of reads should I be looking at getting when 4+ tabling? often I find it tough enough to follow the action let alone develop a read, make a note about it, and then look up on that note later and act upon it.

what should i be looking for to maximize efficiency/effectiveness?

[lacky]

use pokertracker and playerview (or something like it) and learn what the numbers mean

Steve

[pearljam]

usually the first thing I do when I open 4 up is look for people sitting in 2 or more of my tables, I note these players as multi tablers and assume that at the very least they have a clue.

[Hornacek]

There is usually at least one all-in preflop in the first round (at least at $33, and sometimes $55). Since I 8-table, and don't have time to make big time reads, I look at what kinds of hands people commit to AI PF, and make deductions based off of that.

[Isura]

I can usually keep good mental reads (no time for notes) when the game gets 5-handed or less when I'm 8-tabling. Just watch who's pushing a lot, who likes to call, etc.

[schwza]

i only 4-table, but the note i make most is something like "Q9 b15" meaning he limped Q9 at the 10/15 level. i'm not sure how useful it is, but it's good to know somebody's fishy and will probably stack off with TPNK if you keep betting.

then i rely mostly on PT/player view for pfr/vpip numbers, which is where 90% of my info comes from. it's useful to try to watch how they move. for example, if someone was 3/0 over 30 hands and then 12/8 over 40 they're a pushbot.

i also keep an eye out for people who do things like fold in the BB with 1 bb behind. they get tagged dnupo (does not understand pot odds).

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
what sort of reads should I be looking at getting when 4+ tabling?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know about you, but I just keep my eyes open for anything out of the ordinary.

If there are some limpers, a flop, a CB, and everyone folds, who cares, you didn't learn anything. But if there are two or three players all-in, play close attention to the winner's hole cards, firing up the HH if necessary to see how they got there.

Or if you notice somebody raising every hand. Or calling every hand but folding to any bet. Or a calling station. Whatever catches your eye.

Take physical/online notes if you have a moment, otherwise just try to remember.

Of course, if you are in a hand with other players, that should make it much easier to remember.

[ QUOTE ]

often I find it tough enough to follow the action let alone develop a read, make a note about it, and then look up on that note later and act upon it.


[/ QUOTE ]

It's part of the job. Nobody said it was easy.

[ QUOTE ]

what should i be looking for to maximize efficiency/effectiveness?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably calling stations, because they are most likely to give you a big payoff, and least likely to fall for any moves.

[Paul Thomson]

I got this from Harrington but I find it works well when 4 tabling. Pay attention to the 2 players to the left of me because all your steal attempts have to go through them. And once you have them figured out then pay attention to the two players to the right of you.

GL

It would also be nice to know who are frequent bluffers, who are extremely tight in their blinds, and who push with nothing. (Like people pushing 98s after a big raise and callers at level 2. lol) With PokerAce Hud you can see the mucked hands at showdown, that helps.

I think taking notes 4 tabling is easy. The way I make them is like this: (100,6h) 4bb raise w/ A4o EP big stack. This means blinds are 50/100, its 6 handed, and he raised 400 in EP with a big stack with A4o. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

But I think making notes 8-10 handed is hard, because if you make a note, you probably have 4 tables waiting already, especially if you're on the bubble on 9 tables or something.

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]

then i rely mostly on PT/player view for pfr/vpip numbers, which is where 90% of my info comes from. it's useful to try to watch how they move. for example, if someone was 3/0 over 30 hands and then 12/8 over 40 they're a pushbot.


[/ QUOTE ]

Is this really all that useful, though? The whole point of the pushbot strategy is that it's robust-- the best you can do against pushbots once the pushing starts is turn into one yourself.

I don't use these stats programs because I'd rather rely on my own observations, but maybe this is a leak. Can they really be counted on to indicate subtleties like TL pre-flop, TW post-flop?

[Mr_J]

"Pay attention to the 2 players to the left of me because all your steal attempts have to go through them. And once you have them figured out then pay attention to the two players to the right of you."

Very good advice. People also might wanna try just focusing on the poker, instead of reading 2+2, watching porn or whatever.

[housenuts]

[ QUOTE ]
use pokertracker and playerview (or something like it) and learn what the numbers mean

Steve

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm under the impression this isn't very useful for sng's due to changing blinds/stack sizes. it makes the situations so much different than a regular ring game.

[KingDan]

I like to make note of what a player likes to minraise with in EP.

[ QUOTE ]
People also might wanna try just focusing on the poker, instead of reading 2+2, watching porn or whatever.

[/ QUOTE ]

If only I could stop doing that. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Fortunately, since I've started 10-tabling, it's hard to read 2+2 (or watch porn) while I'm playing.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
use pokertracker and playerview (or something like it) and learn what the numbers mean

Steve

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm under the impression this isn't very useful for sng's due to changing blinds/stack sizes. it makes the situations so much different than a regular ring game.

[/ QUOTE ]

still very useful. also see my post above re: watching the numbers change.

[FieryJustice]

I assume everyone is bad

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
I assume everyone is bad

[/ QUOTE ]

But those who are bad-- and it's not everyone-- are bad in different ways.

[ebaudry]

"The way I make them is like this: (100,6h) 4bb raise w/ A4o EP big stack. This means blinds are 50/100, its 6 handed, and he raised 400 in EP with a big stack with A4o."

I just thought I would share my note taking code, in case someone else wants it. I had been hording it, but hey, in the spirit of sharing.

Using the quotes example, my note would be: A4114 L46h tall.

A4 is off-suit.
First "1" refers to EP=1/MP=2/LP=3
Second "1" refers to raiser being first in.
Third "4" refers to the size in BB of their bet.
L46h = Level 4, 6-handed
tall = duh.

So, another example would be someone who re-raises AKs in LP after an EP raiser + 1 caller. His raise 7 BB when the EP had raised 3BB. Level 2, 8-handed, tall.

r:AKs337r3 L28h tall.
The only real difference here is the addition of "r3" which represents the raise he was raising when he put in 7BB.

It might seem obscure, but I really like to know what people are willing to re-raise with. I find that to be one of the most telling indications of: their knowledge of hand values, their aggression (esp. when tall), and just in general how they react to raises.

I find that this note taking captures many different details about a person's play (not just one factoid), and I have become ridiculously fast reading and writing it. Also, its very easy to turn the HH data into that format.

[Hendricks433]

[ QUOTE ]
"Pay attention to the 2 players to the left of me because all your steal attempts have to go through them. And once you have them figured out then pay attention to the two players to the right of you."

[/ QUOTE ] Very Useful.


[ QUOTE ]
People also might wanna try just focusing on the poker, instead of reading 2+2, watching porn or whatever.

[/ QUOTE ] I just cant help my self.