very simple, perhaps stupid, question.

[dark_horse]

is it possible for a very loose, very aggressive shorthanded player who plays brilliantly posflop - regardless of his opposition - be a longterm winner? let's call the stakes 10/20. live or online.

[Victor]

[ QUOTE ]
who plays brilliantly posflop -

[/ QUOTE ]

so you are the guy whoe 3bet me with 10j off. i paid you off. brilliant play. congrats.

why do you care?

[imported_excel]

80k hands 4 tabling (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=headsup&Number=2229064&Se archpage=1&Main=2229064&Words=+excel&topic=&Search =true#Post2229064)

I had over 90k hands on this guy at the same winrate, (92k hands 2.46bb/100) no table selection.

[Victor]

you are likely the reason why i get crushed. please teach me the ways of the 50/30.

[witeknite]

How many 50/30 players did you profile for that long? How many were winners? How many were losers? What is their standard deviation? While the sample of hands you have on that player is large, your sample for how many 50/30's that win is 1. That sample is insignificant. Please see this (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=3456828&page=0&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1) thread for why this one person tells us nothing.

WiteKnite

[RunDownHouse]

[censored], dark_horse, are you in on this with excel?

[MicroBob]

this is a good point of course.


But I do think that it's possible for an EXCELLENT post-flop player to actually be a winner at 10/20 6-max even if they played 50/30 or something.

It would be very difficult to convince me that a Greenstein or Ivey or Reese couldn't do this.

[wonkadaddy]

how loose and how aggressive? i've been playing around w/a looser game and am starting to really look at the merits of playing 35/25, at least at certain tables.

i'm assuming you mean someone more extreme than this tho, more in line w/the 50/40 guy

[witeknite]

Were you around when excel was doing his schtick initially? He was basically saying, everyone on the HUSH played to tight. If they were real poker players, they would be playing a 50/30 style. Instead of, you know, working on his game, he followed the super lags around the upper limits mining their play. He has yet to produce numbers on any 50/30 players that aren't winning. He never said how many 50/30's he had data on.

I think he is one of the people that Feeney talks about in "Inside the Poker Mind." He is looking for the "secret" to how these people play so many hands and yet win so much. Even if this one guy he talks about is beating the game playing 50/30, with a SD as high as I'm sure his is, he could be beating it for signicantly less in the long run.

You are right about a WCP possibly being good enough, but then, why are they playing 10/20 6-max?

WiteKnite

[MicroBob]

In the books/pubs forum Greenstein mentioned something about Ivey actually occasionally playing low-limits online and playing EVERY hand and trying to win as much as he could.
Just an exercise he enjoyed or something like that.

[witeknite]

That I can see, but 92k hands? I wonder what that guy's graph looks like.

WiteKnite

[imported_excel]

[ QUOTE ]
How many 50/30 players did you profile for that long

[/ QUOTE ]

50/40, not 30

There was only 1 50/40 player. Any others turned out to be the same player.

Any other player that was over 30% prf was very rare and those that were, were much looser, like 64%-75% vpip so in effect a totally different kind of player and loosers.

I proved my point time and time again that LAGs can win and be as good a winners as any TAG, there are not many TAGs who beat 2.4bb/100 with zero table selection playing $10/$20 up always 4 tabling, over 90k hands, after that I stopped watching.

[imported_excel]

[ QUOTE ]
possible for an EXCELLENT post-flop player

[/ QUOTE ]

Someone in this forum quoted the player as playing some of the best post flop plays he had ever seen.

[imported_excel]

[ QUOTE ]
think he is one of the people that Feeney talks about in "Inside the Poker Mind." He is looking for the "secret" to how these people play so many hands and yet win so much.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was pretty much a begining player and was doing as advised, watching winning players, and then posting my observations which did not conform to 2+2 playing.


This player was one of the biggest winners, played the most. This forum dismissed my findings after 10k hands and told me to come back at 100k hands which I pretty much did, including $10/$20 I would have 100k hands on him,