86 off in the BB.

[Bob T.]

Online 2-4 game.

Three limpers, SB completes, I check with 8 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 6 /forums/images/icons/club.gif in the BB.

Flop, 5 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 3 /forums/images/icons/club.gif 2 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif .

SB bets, with my two overcards, and one card gutshot, I call, calling station MP calls, two fold.

Turn, 9 /forums/images/icons/club.gif

Now I have two draws to the straight. SB bets, I call, MP calls.

River 8 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif

SB bets, I call, MP folds. How did I do?

[rkiray]

I think you probably won this hand and I'm putting sb on a pair of 5s.

[rharless]

Bob, I think I would have played it the same in the heat of battle.

In post-hand review -- I would maybe raise on the flop, some small percent of the time. There's nothing like clearing up those overcard outs for your six. /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif In hindsight, a flop raise would also let you have some idea on the strength of your rivered pair.

If the 4 falls, hopefully you get nice action from Mr. A-rag.

[Rockfish]

You post excellent advice and I am still learning so take this in the spirit in which it is offered. I think it's a little loose referring to 86o as overcards, even though it is technically correct.

Had the SB checked and had the player to your left bet out and all called and you were to close the action, I think you have a clear call. Unless you are pretty sure there will be no raise to your left after you call and most of the limpers will call I don't think you have a call here with a gutshot and dubious overcards.

I'm looking for any excuse to get away from this hand as soon as possible so I don't have to make difficult decisions later like whether to call the river bet.

Having said that, I wonder if you should have raised the turn? Then you get to check your pair of 8s on the river when you miss your straight. You might get your opponents to fold to that raise enough times to make it +EV, along with the outs to your hand now that it's a double belly straight draw.

You won didn't you? Or you lost.

Rockfish

[Louie Landale]

Pretty slim calls througout, although none were "bad". Lets hope SB has K4 and MP is brain dead.

Notice how much BETTER this hand will play in last position.

- Louie

[rigoletto]

I would consider raising the turn

[Pirc Defense]

I agree with Rockfish that your two overcards seem tenuous as outs. In this example, would you count each remaining eight and six as outs, or would you reduce by some number, to factor in the chance that hitting and not winning is possible? If a six hit it would give you a pair, but would make anyone holding a four a straight.

The SB betting into three opponents with that flop likely means he has at least a draw, which could quite possibly be helped by one of your outs.

Even if you reduce your overcard outs by, say, two, you would still have eight outs, thus needing about 5:1, and you're getting 6:1 if I added up the bets correctly. Looks to be a positive EV call.

This would be my thought process, anyway.

BTW, in your opinion, does reducing outs in the way I've done make sense, or does it negate the effects of implied odds; that is, do outs that hit and not win cancel out future implied odds?

[angry young man]

don't like the call on the flop because the 4 is the only easy out to play (plus I have general rules for myself regarding this sort of situation). calling turn and river seems automatic.

[Jeffage]

Your getting short odds on your flop call and an 8 or a 6 isn't necessarily good. Plus others could have a 6. I'd fold the flop, the pot is small and you have a weak draw with players behind you.

Jeff

[Bob T.]

My opponent held 54 off in the small blind for a flopped top pair/ outside straight draw.

My rivered pair of eights was good.

There were two ideas that many posters mentioned.

First, the flop call was criticized as being to thin. I think that I would agree with that, because my outs might be compromised, and because with this board, a raise behind me is likely, if someone had, a pair of sevens which have now turned into an overpair.

Second, a couple of posters mentioned that they might raise the turn, and I thought about that, but I had two reasons for not raising here. First, the SB, hadn't folded very often once they got involved with a hand, and I didn't have anything to showdown, so I thought that the chances of winning on the turn were very small. Secondly, the MP player was going to call a single turn bet, he always did, but I thought that a raise might lose him, so if I called, and I improved, I was going to get better odds on my draw, by calling, and letting him in, rather than raising, and shutting him out. Against other opponents, where I thought that I had a better chance of folding both opponents with a turn raise, I think that I would have liked the raise a lot better.

Thanks everyone for your responses.

[ResidentParanoid]

Hi Bob: I end up in this situation all of the time from the SB or BB, especially when I've come in from the SB for half a little bet with something like 68s. I think playing it as you did can be profitable if the table is passive and you're not going to get raised on flop or turn by overpair. Easier to play when the bet comes after you. I usually just call while I'm waiting to hit something, and usually go away if the overcard seems to hit someone. I usually play against pretty obvious opponents, though.

RP

[CrackerZack]

I probably would've folded on the flop. I don't like the call because how do you feel if its raised by one of the limpers? Your overcards aren't exactly huge although probably clean and the 6 puts a 4 straight on board (needing a 4 which probably isn't out there but depending on the limpers or the SB could have 45s its something to be wary of) and if you make a pair on the turn, the river could easily bring an overcard to that giving someone a better hand. You got the flop for free, I'd give up the BB and move on. Turn call, river call are both fine after the flop action.

[Dimich]

He had A4 and didn't want to rely on a check raise knowing MP would call anything. Both you and him played just fine.

*edit* I didn't realize when I posted first you hadn't paid anything to enter this pot preflop. In this situation folding flop is a 50/50 decision, maybe 60-70% towards folding.