Free showdown play with middle pair from the BB

[SlantNGo]

SB thus far seems to be weak-tight, although not a rock. After ~100 hands, he's about 18/5. We've had one previous encounter, where he open-limped A4 from the SB, Bet/Called a 653 flop (I had hit top pair), Check/Called a turn Q, and Checked the river (I checked behind).

So I know he'll lead out with a draw, I think he'll lead out with 2 overcards (probably not raising pre-flop with just one OC seeing as he open-limped A4 once), and I think he'll lead out with a lower PP as well.

My first instinct was to raise the flop (my default play). I waited for the turn because I felt he would lead out with a draw and 2 OCs here again (am I wrong to think that even a weak-tight player would do this?). This allows me to extract value from the draw on a safe turn card, and extract one more bet out of a lower PP. Also, I think he will fold to my raise a reasonable amount of the time, although the only hand I can think of that I'd push him off is TT.

I think I would definitely do this against a more aggressive player who would probably bet the flop & turn with only a single overcard. Bad?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">7 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls.

River: (7 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 7 BB

[gopnik]

why check the river? I think you should value bet it here.

[SlantNGo]

What is weak-tightie calling me with that I beat?

[Brice]

I am raising the flop and seeing how he responds. If he just calls I am firing again on the turn. If he raises, I am calling and folding if I do not improve on the turn.

I have found that with small pots it is not worth calling down to the river with second pair if my opponent shows strength. I consider this a major leak in my game.

[gopnik]

[ QUOTE ]
What is weak-tightie calling me with that I beat?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not a "normal" hand, this is the war of the blinds. Even weak-tight players loosen up and get more aggressive here.
He'll call you with any small pocket pair, a 9 with a worse kicker. Hell, he might even call you with A high.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
What is weak-tightie calling me with that I beat?

[/ QUOTE ]

Q9, T9s, maybe even 98s/97s depending on how liberally he calls from the blind with suited stuff. Sometimes a medium pocket pair might look you up.

[milesdyson]

i usually just call down and bet when checked to. they call with A high, occasionally K high.

[SlantNGo]

Whoa, man I'm surprised by the response I'm getting here. I'm expecting a PP smaller than my 9s to fold to my turn raise, and even if I didn't raise, I wouldn't expect to get another bet out of him (small chance if I call the turn, then he check/calls the river).

I can't see him raising with any of those hands with a 9 pre-flop if he only calls with A4.

[McGahee]

[ QUOTE ]

I can't see him raising with any of those hands with a 9 pre-flop if he only calls with A4.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was originally going to say 'bet the river' as well, but yeah I think this is a key point people are overlooking...if he open limps from the SB with an Ace it's hard to see him calling with a worse hand here. This type of player really puts a wrench into things and makes the hand more difficult to play IMO. It's not an ideal spot for a FSP, but it may not be a bad play given your read. Usually bet the river though.

[Rev. Good Will]

my terminology sucks, but this is a "float", no?

[Shillx]

[ QUOTE ]
i usually just call down and bet when checked to. they call with A high, occasionally K high.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah raising is only good in this spot if you want to bet the river. Since we intend on checking the river behind I would just flat calldown. That said I don't really mind a raise and a river bet here though (do we have reads? I don't know b/c I don't care. It is the theoty behind this play that is important). Taking a "free showdown" is pretty lame in this case.

Brad

[SlantNGo]

Why is the free showdown bad? Am I wrong to think that this type of opponent will check/fold missed overcards or a missed draw on this river, and about 50/50 on check/fold or check/call with a lower PP? I took the free showdown because it gets me 2 bets when he is drawing, and I can't see any made hand I beat that he'll call on the river with.

[SlantNGo]

I like this against an unknown. However, that is counter-intuitive to what I would think of doing against a weak-tightie. Doesn't that just mean I'm losing value when he's drawing, and I'm paying off when he's ahead?

Against an aggressive player, call down is fine.

[ QUOTE ]
i usually just call down and bet when checked to. they call with A high, occasionally K high.

[/ QUOTE ]

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
Whoa, man I'm surprised by the response I'm getting here. I'm expecting a PP smaller than my 9s to fold to my turn raise

[/ QUOTE ]

In that case a turn raise would be bad.

[ QUOTE ]
and even if I didn't raise, I wouldn't expect to get another bet out of him (small chance if I call the turn, then he check/calls the river).

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you overestimate the chance that he's going to bet/bet/check-fold. He'll almost always bet/bet/bet or bet/bet/check-call here.