($33): Terrible TT play at lvl2? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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xJMPx

10-12-2005, 01:46 PM

I have no reads on my opponents in this hand.

Was this a terrible move?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|saw showdown

SB (t1835)
BB (t195)
Hero (t800)
UTG+1 (t1305)
MP1 (t655)
MP2 (t275)
MP3 (t1140)
CO (t1185)
Button (t610)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Hero raises to t90, 4 folds, CO calls t90, 2 folds, BB raises to t195 (all-in), Hero raises to t800(all-in), CO calls t710.

schwza

10-12-2005, 01:52 PM

i woulda limped, and then called the push. then i'd lead out on any non-A flop and fold if CO reraised. this line's not terrible though, imo.

Karak567

10-12-2005, 01:56 PM

I'd probably do the same thing.

pineapple888

10-12-2005, 01:57 PM

I don't know if it was "terrible", but it seems overaggressive.

An isolation raise is tempting with a pair, since you want to play heads-up, but this doesn't seem to be the right situation:

- BB isn't desperate yet at L2, so you can expect a good hand there
- CO already flat-called your raise and has you covered
- TT isn't all that great a hand

It would be reasonable to fold, but I like a call, and try to check it down. If CO does his own isolation raise, then fold.

schwza

10-12-2005, 01:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd probably do the same thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

you open raise?

xJMPx

10-12-2005, 02:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd probably do the same thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

you open raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a hand that I have been struggling a bit with. I played a multi table event on the weekend and posted an UTG TT hand that I open limped with in a similar situation. I got some advice there to open-raise with it. I was going to open limp again here, but then second guessed myself based on the advice I received (only one poster responded).

So, is open limping UTG with TT pretty standard for everyone? Then, what's ur play with a big reraise?

kevstreet

10-12-2005, 03:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So, is open limping UTG with TT pretty standard for everyone? Then, what's ur play with a big reraise?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's early in the tournament so I'd open limp and when faced with a raise I'd call and play the 10s for set value. I'm guessing that's pretty standard. If the flop came all under cards I'd have to re-evaluate.

RobGW

10-12-2005, 03:11 PM

Whether you want to open limp or raise with TT is a matter of style I guess. It's not wrong either way. Since you chose to raise though now lets take a look at the action. CO flat calls which tells me he has a good but not great hand. Certainly not a pair higher than TT. BB going all in just says he has a hand he wants to go with. Could be a high pair, could be a low pair, could be two high cards. But you cant fold for $95 more. Given the CO flat call I'd push here too to get it heads up. I wont mind racing with the shortstack given the extra money in the pot and his raise was only 95 more. So no its not a terrible play. at all. If CO called then thats the breaks I guess.

xJMPx

10-12-2005, 03:52 PM

Thanks for all the replies.

My thoughts when making my decision was that the CO has not shown much strength by flat calling, so if I push I will more than likely isolate against the BB, if not I'm probably in a coinflip situation (not that I'm happy with that, but I think the times he folds it's +EV).

I also didn't give the BB much respect because, although I had no reads on him, short stacks this early are often weak players that could be doing this with a very large range of hands.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|saw showdown

SB (t1835)
BB (t195)
Hero (t800)
UTG+1 (t1305)
MP1 (t655)
MP2 (t275)
MP3 (t1140)
CO (t1185)
Button (t610)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Hero raises to t90, 4 folds, CO calls t90, 2 folds, BB raises to t195(all-in), Hero raises to t800(all-in), CO calls t710.

Flop: (t935) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)

Turn: (t935) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)

River: (t935) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)

Results:
BB has Ad 9h (one pair, aces).
Hero has Th Ts (three of a kind, tens).
CO has Qd Qs (straight, ace high).
Outcome: CO wins t935.

pineapple888

10-12-2005, 04:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
the CO has not shown much strength by flat calling

[/ QUOTE ]

Other people have agreed with you, but to me, a call of an UTG raise shows strength.

xJMPx

10-12-2005, 04:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Other people have agreed with you, but to me, a call of an UTG raise shows strength.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess without reads, maybe I should be assuming he's seeing an UTG raise the same way I do, as very strong.

However, I tend to assume that people in the first couple levels of a $33 with call with a very large range of hands and ignore the position the raise came from...thoughts?

Bigwig

10-12-2005, 04:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd probably do the same thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

you open raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a hand that I have been struggling a bit with. I played a multi table event on the weekend and posted an UTG TT hand that I open limped with in a similar situation. I got some advice there to open-raise with it. I was going to open limp again here, but then second guessed myself based on the advice I received (only one poster responded).

So, is open limping UTG with TT pretty standard for everyone? Then, what's ur play with a big reraise?

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a distinct difference between MTT and STT strategy. The biggest portion of this is early level play, and it's exacerbated in EP. This has to do with payout structure. You're almost certainly better off limping UTG with TT this early at a STT.

pineapple888

10-12-2005, 04:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Other people have agreed with you, but to me, a call of an UTG raise shows strength.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess without reads, maybe I should be assuming he's seeing an UTG raise the same way I do, as very strong.

However, I tend to assume that people in the first couple levels of a $33 with call with a very large range of hands and ignore the position the raise came from...thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know, I just sense this deep disdain from many people on this board for anyone playing at levels less than $109.

But there are plenty of strong players at the lower levels, and even a donk can wake up with a hand.

At lower levels, I make most of my money post-flop against donks who are chasing. But pre-flop, anything can happen, and I generally play my cards and position, not my opponents.