Goals vs. Achievements [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

brimstone1

10-12-2005, 05:46 AM

Dear 2+2ers,

I want to share with you something I've been thinking about for a while.

Each month, between the 1st and the 10th, we get the classic "<Insert month> Goals/Results" threads, in which people who have had a positive ROI month will boast their winnings and their stats, and in my opinion, have a giant e-penis circlejerk.

I remember loathing those threads when I ran bad, so I made a pact with myself. I told myself I would never post my stats/winnings even if I ran on a heater the size of South America, giving me an ITM of 100%, and a finish distribution of 100/0/0/0.

For those who are wondering, I am doing okay, and no, I'm not on a cold streak or a losing month or a giant cooler. I'm doing just fine, thank you very much, I'm not making this thread out of spite or bitterness.

Gigabet's famous "Almost there with Success and Failure" got me thinking.

While some people might benefit from setting goals from themselves and trying to make them, setting goals in an environment where simple variance can be the difference between your new car's down-payment and not making rent can cause severe morale loss.

Goals + Poker = the foundation for the sense of "failure".

So, in this thread, for a change, set aside your $ winnings or your $2000/hr rate, and forget what you had set as a goal for the past month. I want you to tell us what you feel you achieved recently.

Did you take a shot at a new level? Thats an achievement -- it doesn't matter if you got a -100% ROI at it.

Did you have an epiphany about bubble-play while taking your morning shower? Achievement! Tell us about it.

You set out to play X, but you played X-10? NO! don't tell us about that, there is no failing in this thread.

Just say you played X-10 games, thats your achievement.

You played 1000 hands of 10/20, regardless of outcome.

Please stay away from giving numbers that will give anyone with a calculator your exact winnings.

The whole point is to avoid having a goals/results thread.

As our dear *COUGH*friend*COUGH* Michael O'Malley would say: Enjoy!

Cactus Jack

10-12-2005, 06:07 AM

Too funny. Love the giant e-penis circle jerk analogy.

Never done it, never will. My "goals" are totally different than the threads to which you refer. My "goal" is to improve. I could care less what my stats are. If I succeed at my "goal," then the stats to which everyone you speak of are so enamored will also come.

You may be missing what it often apparent to those who are not involved: peer pressure. Most here are still in school, either high school or college, and not yet removed from the need for approval from peers. While they state one goal, their real goal is to get approval. It's understandable. Everyone wants approval. But approval at the expense of what should be your real goal, whatever that real goal should be, is expensive indeed.

I'm many, many years older than the average poster. I'm not immune to the need for approval, just old enough to be past caring as much. It comes with time, for those who ever learn it.

Wisdom is Mother Nature's trade for taking your hair.

Nice try, but I'll lay 4 to 1 that this thread either dies or devolves into a flamefest. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

CJ

Irieguy

10-12-2005, 12:52 PM

Interesting post, and interesting reply by Cactus.

You both hit on some very important points, IMO. Cactus hit the nail on the head with his comment about the age of most posters here and their need for approval.

Every few months a new batch of teen marvels will emerge claiming 25% ROIs over thousands of $55s and setting goals to play 20,000 SNGs over the next year so they can buy a car and their own island and quit school. Then they run cold for like 3 seconds and get depressed and embarassed and stop posting while they dream about buying real estate with no money down or whatever.

There you go, Cactus... I'll see if I can turn this nice thread into a flamefest.

Irieguy

freemoney

10-12-2005, 12:55 PM

you got it right and that includes me.

The Don

10-12-2005, 01:02 PM

10-12-2005, 01:07 PM

Im buying an island next week!

LOL! Just jokes.

TruFloridaGator

10-12-2005, 01:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Im buying an island next week!

LOL! Just jokes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, I bought one with my super duper 67% ROI for my first few months but then I had to sell it because of my current 142 OOTM streak. /images/graemlins/frown.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

10-12-2005, 01:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Im buying an island next week!

LOL! Just jokes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, I bought one with my super duper 67% ROI for my first few months but then I had to sell it because of my current 142 OOTM streak. /images/graemlins/frown.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I hear ya man.

When I went on a 15 bajillion OOTM streak I had to take my new Porsche back. God I hated those days.

LOL!

nyc999

10-12-2005, 01:16 PM

I agree with Cactus and Irie.

I play not really for the income but to learn and become better. So I do not really have a ROI or $$ goal but just to become better. But then again, I'm 8 years out of school and married - if I was still in school I could definitely see it becoming a pissing contest between friends.

So anyway - my non-monetary goal is to be 4-tabling $22s by this time next year and improve post-flop play through 6-max cash games.

Lady Dont Tekno

10-12-2005, 01:17 PM

Excellent post Irie. I think you also found the reason why poker will always be profitable for some, even if the boom subsides.

LDT

10-12-2005, 01:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with Cactus and Irie.

I play not really for the income but to learn and become better. So I do not really have a ROI or $$ goal but just to become better. But then again, I'm 8 years out of school and married - if I was still in school I could definitely see it becoming a pissing contest between friends.

So anyway - my non-monetary goal is to be 4-tabling $22s by this time next year and improve post-flop play through 6-max cash games.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love it when people talk about goals of four tabling the 22s this time, NEXT YEAR!

That is awesome and shows some great patience. I am so used to all these "teenies" coming in here wanting to quadthousand table the 215s next week it makes me want to puke, lol.

nyc999

10-12-2005, 01:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with Cactus and Irie.

I play not really for the income but to learn and become better. So I do not really have a ROI or $$ goal but just to become better. But then again, I'm 8 years out of school and married - if I was still in school I could definitely see it becoming a pissing contest between friends.

So anyway - my non-monetary goal is to be 4-tabling $22s by this time next year and improve post-flop play through 6-max cash games.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love it when people talk about goals of four tabling the 22s this time, NEXT YEAR!

That is awesome and shows some great patience. I am so used to all these "teenies" coming in here wanting to quadthousand table the 215s next week it makes me want to puke, lol.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I wish I had as much free time as these teenies. I'm lucky to get in 6 SNG's after a 10 hour workday, walking the dog, making dinner, etc. That and I treat this as a hobby, and not as a source of income.

10-12-2005, 01:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with Cactus and Irie.

I play not really for the income but to learn and become better. So I do not really have a ROI or $$ goal but just to become better. But then again, I'm 8 years out of school and married - if I was still in school I could definitely see it becoming a pissing contest between friends.

So anyway - my non-monetary goal is to be 4-tabling $22s by this time next year and improve post-flop play through 6-max cash games.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love it when people talk about goals of four tabling the 22s this time, NEXT YEAR!

That is awesome and shows some great patience. I am so used to all these "teenies" coming in here wanting to quadthousand table the 215s next week it makes me want to puke, lol.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I wish I had as much free time as these teenies. I'm lucky to get in 6 SNG's after a 10 hour workday, walking the dog, making dinner, etc. That and I treat this as a hobby, and not as a source of income.

[/ QUOTE ]

You and me both bro.

I am a chef as my full time job and not looking to change it.

However as a hobby it does pay for itself and I dont mind making an extra $100 a week or more for spending money.

Dont get me wrong, I love the game of poker I just think it would be way to stressfull as a career is all. And using it as a hobby, well, you get the best of both worlds and there is nothing wrong with that at all.

PS: What do you do for your full time job?

Cactus Jack

10-12-2005, 01:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting post, and interesting reply by Cactus.

You both hit on some very important points, IMO. Cactus hit the nail on the head with his comment about the age of most posters here and their need for approval.

Every few months a new batch of teen marvels will emerge claiming 25% ROIs over thousands of $55s and setting goals to play 20,000 SNGs over the next year so they can buy a car and their own island and quit school. Then they run cold for like 3 seconds and get depressed and embarassed and stop posting while they dream about buying real estate with no money down or whatever.

There you go, Cactus... I'll see if I can turn this nice thread into a flamefest.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

I was hoping I could innoculate it, but you closed the deal.

nh

CJ

Edit: The truth is I've never put a dime of my own money up. (I got $10 last year from Royal Vegas and Pacific, and have been playing on it since.) That's my single claim to achievement. My goal is to remain flush while getting better. So far...X <--fingers crossed

nyc999

10-12-2005, 01:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
PS: What do you do for your full time job?

[/ QUOTE ]

Survey/Opinion Research -- brand strategy, advertising research, opinion/political polling, etc.

10-12-2005, 01:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PS: What do you do for your full time job?

[/ QUOTE ]

Survey/Opinion Research -- brand strategy, advertising research, opinion/political polling, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats neat. Do you enjoy it much? Sounds like it could become very repetitive. Not saying that cooking doesnt. LOL!

ZeroPointMachine

10-12-2005, 01:37 PM

My biggest poker achievement of the month has very little to do with poker.

I finally explained to my better half that just because we are comfortable without my poker income does not mean that it is free money. I explained how bankroll growth works and the true potential. I think she realizes now how short-sighted it is to spend it almost as fast as I can make it and the added stress this causes.

Bankroll Protected-Stress Reduced-Bed Still Warm

By far my biggest achievement of the month.

TruFloridaGator

10-12-2005, 01:42 PM

wow, +++++++++EV. You are the man!

chisness

10-12-2005, 01:45 PM

i admit that i did set a goal over the summer to play 20,000 next year, though with intentions to buy things like a new TV and save most of it rather than wasting all the proceeds. however (this goes against the thread rules, but is important) i realized after school started that playing that much during school is simply not realistic since a problem set, lab, or studying needs to take priority.

goals, to me, are extremely helpful because they give me something to reach and for me it's an accomplshment that i was able to tell myself "no, 20,000 will not happen and there's no point in killing yourself then lowering it massively near the end of the year." i've set a new goal for 12,000 in a year, which i still believe will be a challenge (especially since i'm going to be either working or in school full time).

as for recent things, i had my worst downswing ever, of about 30 buyins (until this point, i was always able to play a couple more hours and the downswing would end and i'd break about even or win a little bit with rakeback) but then managed to win back about 20 of them in one session, which made things a bit better.

Cactus Jack

10-12-2005, 01:45 PM

That IS an achievement. One I haven't gotten close to managing yet, and don't think I'll live so long.

"You're playing a GAME. That's not work!"

CJ

Irieguy

10-12-2005, 02:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My biggest poker achievement of the month has very little to do with poker.

I finally explained to my better half that just because we are comfortable without my poker income does not mean that it is free money. I explained how bankroll growth works and the true potential. I think she realizes now how short-sighted it is to spend it almost as fast as I can make it and the added stress this causes.

Bankroll Protected-Stress Reduced-Bed Still Warm

By far my biggest achievement of the month.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the coolest results post I've seen in a while.

Irieguy

SippinSoma

10-12-2005, 02:25 PM

Gramps

10-12-2005, 02:56 PM

Agreed. One of my goals is to always be process/excution oriented instead of results oriented. If you get too results-oriented, you'll get more frustrated by the things beyond your control (when your bad swings occur), and that in turn works against you, and now infects your process - making it even less likely that you'll hit any results-defined goal. It's a catch 22 of sorts, b/c you really have to look at your (long-run) results to gauge how good your process is in a lot of respects, but the more you can take satisfaction in solid, patient, fight-like-all-heck in every SNG process, the better off you're going to be.

I think if you want to play 10,000 SNGs or whatever a year for the next many years, if you don't have a process-orientation, you're going to burn out real quick. A lot of posters that come through this forum (and often disppear) are a constant reminder of that fact. Sh-t happens, deal with it, and do your best from that point on. But...most people are always measuring their last result, and their emotional state reflects that hi or lo. As if this game weren't hard enough as it is...

crookedhat99

10-12-2005, 03:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]

You may be missing what it often apparent to those who are not involved: peer pressure. Most here are still in school, either high school or college, and not yet removed from the need for approval from peers. While they state one goal, their real goal is to get approval. It's understandable. Everyone wants approval. But approval at the expense of what should be your real goal, whatever that real goal should be, is expensive indeed.

I'm many, many years older than the average poster. I'm not immune to the need for approval, just old enough to be past caring as much. It comes with time, for those who ever learn it.

[/ QUOTE ]

The 'need for approval' may or may not the reason behind some of the goals/results threads, but age and the 'need for approval' have no direct correlation.

ilikeaces

10-12-2005, 03:08 PM

I played 11,000+ SNG's this year.

runner4life7

10-12-2005, 03:09 PM

I'm going to respectfully disagree with most posts on this thread. I think setting a goal like 100 SNGS at x% ROI is dumb and everyone obviously agrees. But I need to set goals to play x amount of SNGs in a month so I play more. A goal to move up to the next level is not achieved if I lose and have to drop down. I also have goals to make $X because that is why I play poker. I understand variance and know first hand its a bitch but I still need goals so I have something to shoot for. Otherwise I'm just playing poker and going with the flow which I dont find to be the most efficient way for me to move up and thus make more and buy my porsche /images/graemlins/wink.gif

The Don

10-12-2005, 03:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i admit that i did set a goal over the summer to play 20,000 next year, though with intentions to buy things like a new TV and save most of it rather than wasting all the proceeds. however (this goes against the thread rules, but is important) i realized after school started that playing that much during school is simply not realistic since a problem set, lab, or studying needs to take priority.

goals, to me, are extremely helpful because they give me something to reach and for me it's an accomplshment that i was able to tell myself "no, 20,000 will not happen and there's no point in killing yourself then lowering it massively near the end of the year." i've set a new goal for 12,000 in a year, which i still believe will be a challenge (especially since i'm going to be either working or in school full time).

as for recent things, i had my worst downswing ever, of about 30 buyins (until this point, i was always able to play a couple more hours and the downswing would end and i'd break about even or win a little bit with rakeback) but then managed to win back about 20 of them in one session, which made things a bit better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to mentioned getting hammered. This is what gets me because I always do it during peak hours.

chisness

10-12-2005, 03:23 PM

gramps, what type of process/execution goals do you make -- isn't setting an amount part of that?

ilikeaces, what level, are you a pro, and how do you typically do this (3 nights a week for 6 hours, etc.)?

Gramps

10-12-2005, 03:26 PM

Congrats process boy, you're up a couple thousand on me so far.

runner4life7

10-12-2005, 03:43 PM

damn drinking. If only drinking and friday/saturday nights didnt go hand in hand. oh well -EV as it is gotta have fun

Cactus Jack

10-12-2005, 04:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]

The 'need for approval' may or may not the reason behind some of the goals/results threads, but age and the 'need for approval' have no direct correlation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Neither does breast-feeding, but one must admit that the older you get, the less likely you are to need it.

CJ

10-12-2005, 04:35 PM

sofere

10-12-2005, 04:39 PM

My ultimate achievement is that I found a hobby that is challenging, entertaining, intellectually stimulating, and is, by some miracle, profitable. For that I am grateful just to have a positive ROI.

Of course the goal is to be ever maximizing my true ROI by finding improvement to strategies and making tweaks here and there. For instance...i recently started to see more cheap flops in the early levels of the $33s and play a little postflop poker and found that it has helped me get into bubble with a good stack a lot more often over the last 100 or so games.

My other goals are to expand my poker horizons and learn to play other types of hold-em than NL STTs and to get back to reading these forums regularly.

10-12-2005, 04:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
get back to reading these forums regularly.

[/ QUOTE ]

VNH!

sahala

10-12-2005, 04:51 PM

Good thread.

My biggest achievement for the last 4 months: not a single cigarette smoked. Nicotine works so well with poker for me, whether for relaxation or concentration purposes. Unfortunately it really was a horrible leak in my "game", and from playing poker I turned from a casual smoker to pretty much a chain smoker. Really stupid.

2nd biggest achievement: being disciplined about the hours I put into playing the 22s. I used to start out the night saying that I needed to be up X buyins before quitting for the night. This messed with my sleep, ability to focus at work, and life in general. Now I just allocate a segment of my after-work hours and go at it regardless of whether I'm up or down for the night.

These are probably non-poker achievements, but they've helped me with my game from an emotional standpoint.

10-12-2005, 05:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Good thread.

My biggest achievement for the last 4 months: not a single cigarette smoked. Nicotine works so well with poker for me, whether for relaxation or concentration purposes. Unfortunately it really was a horrible leak in my "game", and from playing poker I turned from a casual smoker to pretty much a chain smoker. Really stupid.

2nd biggest achievement: being disciplined about the hours I put into playing the 22s. I used to start out the night saying that I needed to be up X buyins before quitting for the night. This messed with my sleep, ability to focus at work, and life in general. Now I just allocate a segment of my after-work hours and go at it regardless of whether I'm up or down for the night.

These are probably non-poker achievements, but they've helped me with my game from an emotional standpoint.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like the second acheivement. Too many people will not quit until they are up overall for the day. They will not book a losing day. Well guess what guys, losing is a part of poker. You are going to have some winning days and some losing days. You have to know how to deal with this and playing to catch up will only put you further behind.