Marginal Hand - How would you play it?

[Dynamic Opinions]

Here's a hand my brother played that I am arguing with him about.

Here's what he had to say:
I believe this hand had close decisions on every round. The way I played this hand might be the same way a calling station would play it, but that's besides the point. One other point is that just calling the flop and also calling on the tuen and river was done partially for image reasons (i.e. tight/straight forward and not easily bluffed).

The game was a typical fairly loose/passive 2/4 game at Party.
In my opinion, the close decisions are between

Preflop: calling/folding
Flop: calling/raising
Turn: after the raise calling/folding
River: calling/folding


Hmmm, bisonbison converter isn't working for me.
Here's the hand history, maybe someone else will have better luck converting.

***** Hand History for Game 2861790571 *****
2/4 Texas Hold'em Game Table (Limit) - Tue Oct 11 17:59:27 EDT 2005
Table Table 65097 (Real Money) -- Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: spaceglider ( $143)
Seat 2: draws_r_us ( $142)
Seat 3: jaynesguy ( $68)
Seat 4: motley666 ( $123)
Seat 6: RefNooshen ( $207)
Seat 7: tikanu ( $164)
Seat 8: PizzzaMan101 ( $51)
Seat 9: upstart222 ( $105.65)
Seat 10: SASKA ( $94)
RefNooshen posts small blind (1)
tikanu posts big blind (2)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to spaceglider [ 7c, 6c ]
PizzzaMan101 calls (2)
SASKA calls (2)
spaceglider calls (2)
draws_r_us calls (2)
jaynesguy calls (2)
motley666 calls (2)
RefNooshen raises (3) to 4
tikanu folds.
PizzzaMan101 calls (2)
SASKA calls (2)
spaceglider calls (2)
draws_r_us calls (2)
jaynesguy calls (2)
motley666 calls (2)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Qs, 4d, 7s ]
RefNooshen bets (2)
PizzzaMan101 calls (2)
SASKA folds.
spaceglider calls (2)
draws_r_us folds.
jaynesguy calls (2)
motley666 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Jh ]
RefNooshen bets (4)
PizzzaMan101 folds.
spaceglider calls (4)
jaynesguy raises (8) to 8
RefNooshen folds.
spaceglider calls (4)
** Dealing River ** : [ Tc ]
spaceglider checks.
jaynesguy bets (4)
spaceglider calls (4)
** Summary **
Main Pot: $63 | Rake: $3
Board: [ Qs 4d 7s Jh Tc ]
spaceglider balance $125, lost $18 [ 7c 6c ] [ a pair of sevens -- Qs,Jh,Tc,7c,7s ]
draws_r_us balance $138, lost $4 (folded)
jaynesguy balance $113, bet $18, collected $63, net +$45 [ 4c Jc ] [ two pairs, jacks and fours -- Qs,Jc,Jh,4c,4d ]
motley666 balance $119, lost $4 (folded)
adear balance $40, sits out
RefNooshen balance $197, lost $10 (folded)
tikanu balance $162, lost $2 (folded)
PizzzaMan101 balance $45, lost $6 (folded)
upstart222 balance $105.65, sits out
SASKA balance $90, lost $4 (folded)

[TheHammer24]

I 100% fold this turn after I am raised. As a result, folding the river would also be correct if you made it there.

The flop is marginal because it is a fairly big pot and you have a decent amount of outs to improve.

Preflop is ok after a couple of limpers and a loose game.

Fold PF in early position. Med suited connectors can be slightly profitable for one bet, but rarely are for two bets.

Being in though, check/call one bet on the flop, fold the turn

[shant]

Preflop call is a little loose but OK he did it.

The flop call is a little loose with 4 players left to act and no way of knowing if they're going to raise or not. I know he's getting like 16-1 so I probably make the call on the flop.

I don't get the turn call. He just barely has the odds to call but he's not closing the action. I think the river isn't an image call I think it's a desperation play.

[Dynamic Opinions]

ok im going to add some more details here...sorry if its a little disorganized or long. (thanks in advance for reading it... worth your time in my opinion) firstly i generally play in much bigger games but i was trying to help his play by letting him watch me and discussing plays etc. another point is that i wouldn't play this way in a bigger game and would at the very least definately fold pre-flop. but using pokertracker etc. and the game being this loose allows me to loosen up a bit. i think the small stakes hold'em book would apply pretty well in this type of situation.

also i wouldnt recommend to basically anyone to play this hand this way which is the reason i wasn't so sure if he should post this as i believe it is deceptively complex. its marginal assuming you know what you're doing, increases your standard deviation, and isn't a good teaching tool for a small stakes game by any means. the way this hand played out would make me seem much more loose and passive than i am i.e. the exception not the rule.

this might be the wrong forum to post this in but i was curious about others opinions on image. i believe it is fairly important even in online games and includes things such as how long you take when you act to subconciously affect your opponents (you also play more hands online so false impressions become that much more effective. i also by the way realize that this is generally only effective against weak players but even in a game like $30/60 it is fairly common and obviously at $2/4.

anyway the way i see it poker is all about deception and this includes opponents perceptions of you and your play. since believe or not im a tight/aggressive player wouldn't you want your weaker playing opponents to think you're a calling station (which almost seems to be the norm at these limits)? you don't bluff calling stations (you should rarely if ever bluff at these limits anyway) and when one bets you give him credit for a hand. so in other words i can semi-bluff or even bluff more and i might not get bluffed out on the river if im out of position and miss my nut flush draw after those semi-bluffs as an example.

i didn't want to have to write all this but at this point i have to attempt to defend myself. the responses so far were hardly suprising but generally very good in my opinion. i was more interested in the reasons and thinking behind your plays more than the actual plays though. anyway im not a calling station and actually if this hand were played in a vacuum i would have called pre-flop like i did (but only because this was a loose/passive $2/4 game using poker tracker on Party).

but even with one caller ahead of me i also would have raised the flop since the pot was so large. someone raising in the SB after many callers doesn't always mean what you would think in these games. on the turn i put him on probably AA or KK but if he had those i had five outs with about 10:1 odds and couldn't know if the guy behind me would raise. since he did i figured he probably slowplayed a set on the flop and it would be an easy fold but the original bettor folded. (keep in mind that unless the pre-flop raiser folded a mid-pp then i had the best hand on the flop and i also had the best chance to win the pot... you need a lot less than that to play when the pot is very large.)

i called because he might not have the set and i yet again might have as many as five outs. the turn was basically a blank with this raggedy board so a set would make sense but then again so might a stupid bluff or an unlikely semi-bluff (for example a pair on the turn to go along with a flush draw) in this big of a pot. even so if the original bettor called the raise then a very rare parlay(?) would have to occur for me to win...that is i wasn't drawing dead to the raiser and i outdrew the original bettor. (i of course didn't have time to think about all this at the table but it seems thats where experience counts and of course this type of analysis as well... ok enough rambling)

in spite of all that i would still fold if i were going to leave the table after this hand (in a vacuum so image is irrelevant). it seems to be slightly negative EV just as i believe in a vacuum raising the flop would be best EV wise and also best if you weren't trying to create the image that i like to have. also by the way this image makes many decisions easier for various reasons that you should be able to figure out... and therefore making it that much easier to play multiple tables and/or avoid making costly mistakes.

lastly again in a vacuum i like folding on the river but it is a close decision at least EV wise. keep in mind the highly unlikely but possible bluff as well as the fact that if he decided to get creative on the turn with a flush draw or possibly even a hand like 65 then he just missed. the point is even though i would fold except for the sake of image it isn't as easy of a decision as it first appears. now i'm open-minded but also i'm fairly confident that image is relatively important and in my situation enough so to change my decisions on those three plays since i believe they were fairly marginal to begin with. in most situations that appear similar to this i would definately be folding but in this exception i still like the way i played it on every round.

well considering the length of this post im sure i've said more than enough although i feel i'm forgetting something.
besides i think i'm missing the wsop and day 2 is about to start which believe or not is the day i played in it not to sound arrogant (and unfortunetely got knocked out a little after the dinner break.) thanks a bunch if you actually read this and i'm looking forward to any and all responses. respectfully... this guy's bro.

[shant]

I think you're overvaluing image consideratons here. Most opponents, especially online, are not paying attention from hand to hand to what each opponent is doing, especially if they're playing more than one table.

Also, I'm not so sure you're putting your opponents on proper hand ranges in these situations. Raising this flop after one person has called and 4 are yet to act in a pot where you can't protect your pair even if it is good right now isn't such a great play. On the turn, you have to discount your outs because of the flush draw, and even if you are getting proper odds to call, you may already be drawing dead to a set or higher 2-pair. You also are not closing the action. You should've folded the turn.

Calling the river, in a vacuum or in real life, is bad. Rationalizing it by saying they may have raised the flush draw on the turn is just wishful thinking, and again doesn't show very good hand-reading. The river is an easy fold.

I think you're really over thinking this whole hand.