Help down 8k this year

I been playing poker for about a year, and I am down about 8k so far. I can't seem to balance my bankroll. I played anything from $1 to $200 MTT and SNG. My home is at pokerstar. So far I earned about 3k from makeing the final table, but I got nothing to shown for. I feel sick about my game right now and takeing sometime off.
I am reloading my account at the end month for about $300.
Please tell me how to build my BR back up with $300. Thank you for your help.

[ QUOTE ]
I been playing poker for about a year, and I am down about 8k so far. I can't seem to balance my bankroll. I played anything from $1 to $200 MTT and SNG. My home is at pokerstar. So far I earned about 3k from makeing the final table, but I got nothing to shown for. I feel sick about my game right now and takeing sometime off.
I am reloading my account at the end month for about $300.
Please tell me how to build my BR back up with $300. Thank you for your help.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would play some $5 SnGos to start. Read a bunch of posts in the One Table forum beforehand. Then once you start making a profit on that I would start to play some $1,2, and 3 dollar tournaments on PokerStars. There are tons of them and one nice run can really elevate your bankroll again.

Good luck.

Micro MTT's, run 5-8 a night, and get Harrington on Holdem Vol's one and two.

post hands.

be honest when you review your own play.

[KramerTM]

Play 500 low-limit SnGs. If you show a profit, move up in level. Lather, rinse, repeat, throwing in an occasional low buy-in (not $200 you psycho!) MTT.

Oh yeah, if you're not playing, you should be reading. 2+2 is free, so start there. No time for friends and family! Let's do this!

[SossMan]

study. or quit poker...it might not be for you.

[KramerTM]

[ QUOTE ]
study. or quit poker...it might not be for you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like the former suggestion a lot better than the latter. Sounds like OP was a victim of poor comprehension of bankroll management as opposed to poor poker playing skills. Not saying both can't be true here, but that's why OP should study up, learn about bankroll management, and try it again the right away.

[kuro]

First thing you have to do is evaluate if you should be gambling at all. Is the money you're spending on gambling really expendable income? Is your gambling causing you problems with your friends and family? Are you depressed/obsessive compulsive? It's tough to be honest with yourself so sometimes you need to find a good friend and ask them what they honestly think.

[KramerTM]

[ QUOTE ]
First thing you have to do is evaluate if you should be gambling at all. Is the money you're spending on gambling really expendable income? Is your gambling causing you problems with your friends and family? Are you depressed/obsessive compulsive? It's tough to be honest with yourself so sometimes you need to find a good friend and ask them what they honestly think.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Sometimes, the people telling you not to gamble, are the ones you would least expect."

HAHA. Sorry, just reminded me of that commercial with the CEO of Harrah's. Admonish on!

[kuro]

http://www.gamblersanonymous.org/20questions.html

Wow tough love. I'll live and learn or die as a fish. You' ll see me at the finall table. I came too dam far to quite now.

[McMelchior]

C'mon guys,
Not everyone around here is a college student!

Probably a third of my circle of acquaintances here in NYC are well-employed, well-paid adults, for whom spending a grand per month on a hobby - whether it's the country club, a sailboat or a couple of casino-visits "rolling the bones", Black Jack or just $1 slots (at max credit) - is quite within acceptable budgetting.

I rather enjoy seeing someone spending their allowance on poker - with the possibility of improving, and definitely with the possibility of enriching the poker economy I'm a part of - than on some stupid -EV casino game.

We are all different, and live different lifes under different circumstances. Sometimes it pays to stop for a second and think about that before jumping to conclusion.

Best,

McMelchior (Johan)

[jcm4ccc]

I think a lot of the posters here are ignoring the odds. This guy has lost 8k in 12 months. The odds are probably 100:1 that he is a losing player overall. His 13 posts so far show no indication that he is a student of the game and likely to get better. These are the harsh facts.

Most players who play poker are losing players, and the bare facts we have on you indicate that you are one of those players. You might get better, but you have provided no facts to indicate that you will.

Here is a game plan for you. Stop playing MTTs. You need a bankroll of $500. Take that $500, and play stricly the $10 SnGs on party. Start reading the "1-table tournaments" on 2+2. Start posting some hands.

If you can get your bankroll up to $2000 by this plan, then start mixing up your game -- play some MTTs if you like, play the $20 SnGs on party.

If you lose the $500 bankroll, quit poker. Forever.

[Jah Red]

McMelchior...I need you to talk to my wife. She is like many here that only see poker as a way to make $$. No doubt, the $$ is great (bought some cool toys with someone elses money) but its the entertainment value that is the key for me. I've been playing for 2 years or so and am in the black a modest amount but have "enjoyed" countless hours of playing online (some time away from wife and kids).

Back to your point looseshark...

I too was down significantly after the first year I was playing. Then I got serious, studied and read every post on the MTT forum. It all turned within a 10 day period where I made the FT of 7 of 8 tourneys I played. Since then my BR can sustain the swings and I don't play poor/scared anymore. Bottom line. Work on your game, read, but most of all have fun. If it ain't fun, don't do it.

Rick

[Rickyroodido]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=3551998&page=&view=&s b=5&o=

[kuro]

I know what you're saying and I've got no problem with people doing that. But your friends that throw a grand a month away on golf aren't asking what to do with a 300 dollar bankroll.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
McMelchior...I need you to talk to my wife. She is like many here that only see poker as a way to make $$. No doubt, the $$ is great (bought some cool toys with someone elses money) but its the entertainment value that is the key for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

My GF (almost three years and counting, ironically about a month or two longer than I've been playing) has gone from distrusting the idea of poker to accepting it to being in awe. The one thing she insists on, though - and I think she's entirely right - is that I shouldn't turn pro because, among other reasons, I'm not the type of guy that would enjoy it or want the pressure of constantly producing results in a game that doesn't really have a way of ensuring that.

I play this game for the money. But I post almost as much if not more than I play, because I seriously enjoy it and like the competition/analysis as much as the results. The reason I've gotten so much better at this game over the years (check out my posts when I started out; I guarantee most of them suck) is because I like it so much I'm willing to spend the time to take it seriously. My girl understands that and is willing to let me have my study/playing time because she knows how much I love the game; the money is an awesome bonus for her, but she'd be fine if I just broke even. If you talk to your wife about this I am certain you'd wind up with a better marriage as a result.

---

I also know my bankroll management, I know where my limits are, and whether I'm playing with a roll of $500 or $50,000, I am never going to spend a penny of my own money after the initial 125 it took me to learn to win.

If somebody's down 8K in a year, and skips all over stakes...it's a very bad sign. A very few people can rocket up the ladder and stay there while they fine tune an already existing skillset. I'm too risk averse, but maybe I could've handled that given a proper roll (a year ago - I would have been crushed two years back); most people can't, and if they're just randomly picking stakes, they aren't serious, ensuring they'll never win.

Again, for some people, that's fine because it's a hobby. But if somebody is perturbed enough to make a post with that as the title, they really have two options: study the hell out of the game, or quit it now. The money is obviously significant enough to affect mental state.

[FishInAPhoneBooth]

[ QUOTE ]
I been playing poker for about a year, and I am down about 8k so far. I can't seem to balance my bankroll.

[/ QUOTE ]

What was it to begin with? What did you play?

[ QUOTE ]
I played anything from $1 to $200 MTT and SNG. My home is at pokerstar.

[/ QUOTE ]

Playing $200 MTT would require a bankroll of ~$10k. Did you have that?

[ QUOTE ]
So far I earned about 3k from makeing the final table, but I got nothing to shown for. I feel sick about my game right now and takeing sometime off.

[/ QUOTE ]

Taking a break is not a bad thing.

[ QUOTE ]
I am reloading my account at the end month for about $300. Please tell me how to build my BR back up with $300. Thank you for your help.

[/ QUOTE ]

As another poster suggested, stick with $10+1 SNG on Party. You can't play a $20, a $30, or a $50. You don't have the bankroll and might not have the skills.

You can play MTT 1 day a week, but only using the profits from that days SNGs.

You need to buckle down and set a goal of turning your $300 into $500. You need to prove that you can be a winning player at the low limits before you even think about playing for the kind of money you were. Here's my story:

I started with $500 in my account a year ago. It dipped to $40 then I slowly built it back up. I never played above the 5+1 tournaments. (Thank goodness, because I would have lost a lot more than I did) When I got my stack back to $500 I moved up to the $10. I've now got ~ $970 in my account and I'm playing the $20 tourneys. I've proven that I can win at the lower limits, and now as I move up, my bankroll is growing faster and faster. I'm confident that I will be playing the $50 and then $100 buyin tourneys before the end of the year. I'm super-confident and getting better every day.

But the most important part of it, is that I didn't lose 8K while I was learning. I was losing $5 at a time. Not trying to rub it in. Just don't want you to let it happen again. DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES play higher than a $5 tournament or $1-$2 limit game until you get your bankroll over $500. Promise yourself this now. Only 3 things can happen:

1. You will follow my advice...and then slowly work your way back to the higher limits...

2. You will follow my advice...and slowly lose your $300 (this would take about a year or two at these limits)...and you would then have to decide if the entertainment value of poker is worth $300 a year...because you simply not going to be profitable player if you can't beat these limits after playing for 2 years.

3. you will find this too tedious and you will start playing the higher limits without the proper bankroll...you have a gambling problem. Sorry, but there is no other way to put it.

Good luck.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
If you lose the $500 bankroll, quit poker. Forever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats the exact thing I did for myself. I deposited 100 on stars in early 04 and busted out in weeks playing SNGs and stud h/L. I redeposited 100, but told myself, (and my GF) that if I lost this time, I would NEVER play online poker again. I read, I studied, I eventually found this site...and I built it SLOWLY! ( I posted in the SNG forum yesterday that my first 6 mos yielded only 1k---very bad hourly rate). Who cares if youre making money or not at first: if you break even, learn, get better, and entertain yourself in the process, then that is gold.

p

[Brad F.]

Just an FYI adanthar, this is one of the top 5 or so posts I've ever read. It really made tons of sense to me. If you are too eager to get to the higher stakes, variance will kill you and you will almost always go broke.

Brad

[SharkBait]

Change name from "looseshark" to "TAG Shark". It really is that simple.

I think you really need to introduce some discipline into your Poker "hobby".I consider myself a knowlegeable novice having only been playing for 4 months.I devote about 30hrs a week to my hobby split 1/3 playing,2/3 reading everything I can find about Poker theory.
I started with $30 & have now turned that into $250.I began at the bottom with freeroll mtt,s 1c/2c limit and 10c stt,s
and slowly moved up to now playing 10c/20c nl & limit,$1 to $3 stt,s and $1 to $6 mtt.
Biggest win $380 2nd place in a $6 $1250 gteed,$300 of which I pulled out and bought myself something nice so I am now playing for free.I will never move up a limit until I feel confident of winning consistently at my current limit.
Good Luck.

[jcm4ccc]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you really need to introduce some discipline into your Poker "hobby".I consider myself a knowlegeable novice having only been playing for 4 months.I devote about 30hrs a week to my hobby split 1/3 playing,2/3 reading everything I can find about Poker theory.
I started with $30 & have now turned that into $250.I began at the bottom with freeroll mtt,s 1c/2c limit and 10c stt,s
and slowly moved up to now playing 10c/20c nl & limit,$1 to $3 stt,s and $1 to $6 mtt.
Biggest win $380 2nd place in a $6 $1250 gteed,$300 of which I pulled out and bought myself something nice so I am now playing for free.I will never move up a limit until I feel confident of winning consistently at my current limit.
Good Luck.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice job. Your next step is to start posting some hands here.

[locutus2002]

Here are my observations from your post:

1) Hero may have a gambling problem. You have shown some restraint by "feeling sick" and taking some time off. It's likely that you only have a slight problem (no more than the typical poker playing American).

2) It's likely that hero is not a winning player. This implies that hero is likely to need some improvement to become a winning player. Hero needs to work on his game, study, review his hands and others. Hero should be playing the smallest limits possible or freerolls until he can demonstrate that he is a winning player. Pokerschoolonline.com might be a good place to start.

3) Poker is about more than playing well. In your case poor bankroll management has contributed to your problem. I wanted to share some advice with you that I received from a very winning player.

...NP, man. FWIW, I got to the point that I am at by myself and with the help of the boards. Also, I'll tell you this - poker is about discipline. Discipline in Hand selection, game selection, BR management, Hours invested, and approach to the game. 60% of the players know what the right play is. Seriously, a LOT of players KNOW how to play good. However, they just aren't disciplined enough to do it. They get loose, they don't want to fold, they'd rather play games with lower EV, etc. Good luck to you,

With a $300 bankroll, poker is a hobby as the value of your time is probably worth considerably more than the number of hours you can play on this. It might be a good idea to put some limits on this hobby, but it is likely to cost you quite a bit in terms of time and money to become a winning player, and even then its likely to be a hobby for the same hourly reason.

Best of luck.

-Donkutus.

[Dave D]

[ QUOTE ]
I been playing poker for about a year, and I am down about 8k so far. I can't seem to balance my bankroll. I played anything from $1 to $200 MTT and SNG. My home is at pokerstar. So far I earned about 3k from makeing the final table, but I got nothing to shown for. I feel sick about my game right now and takeing sometime off.
I am reloading my account at the end month for about $300.
Please tell me how to build my BR back up with $300. Thank you for your help.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. Learn how to type better. Seriously, though this post could be worse, it's semi hard to read and understand. A quick run through would (or should) allow you to see several really bad spelling/grammatical errors, which if fixed would make your post easier to read/understand. This matters because when you start posting responses to other people's hands (and you should soon), people need to be able to read/understand what you say so they will/can respond to you.

2.You really don't give us much detail and expect us to give you some sort of "God-like truth" answer. There really isn't a perfect solution to this at all. You haven't told us what games you played, how often, how much you cashed (total, not just one cash), how far you get etc. With $300, it's going to be hard to make it up to 8k even in a year.

3. Don't play exclusivly on poker stars. Play on party. Play party's limit games (1/2 at most). Even though stars has more tourneys with better structure, party is widely considered much softer.

4. Read here more, and don't expect a quick fix.

[betgo]

I would love to have you in the 200s.

Seriously, my advice would be to play at a level you can beat. If not that, a level at which you can take an acceptable loss.

I started out at the play money tables. Then I bought in for $20 on Paradise. Lost that. Bought in for $50. Lost that. Bought in for $50. Never had to reload again.

With tournaments, you don't have to play high stakes to have decent competition. By the end of the tournament, there will be decent competition. You can also satellite into bigger tournaments.

There are plenty of freerolls out there. Learn to beat those first. Then move up.

[MLG]

It seems you havent come very far at all. I would seriously advise giving up on poker. There is nothing that you've said that even indicates you know what you need to do to turn yourself into a winning player.

[FishInAPhoneBooth]

[ QUOTE ]
...NP, man. FWIW, I got to the point that I am at by myself and with the help of the boards. Also, I'll tell you this - poker is about discipline. Discipline in Hand selection, game selection, BR management, Hours invested, and approach to the game. 60% of the players know what the right play is. Seriously, a LOT of players KNOW how to play good. However, they just aren't disciplined enough to do it. They get loose, they don't want to fold, they'd rather play games with lower EV, etc. Good luck to you...

[/ QUOTE ]

You are very wise.

Small games, lots of study. That's the only way that you can do this. Oh, someone recommended the 10+1s SnGs on Party to you. They are soft, but be careful. I had about $250 in my account when someone recommended these to me (SnGs in general, not just Party SnGs). I dropped my $250 to $2.50, real fast. Big mistake. I'm a mildly wining player now, but that was a drop that almost caused me to quit online poker. They are probably the easiest tourneys to beat anywhere other than the the $1-2 SnGs that some sites have. However, starting at these very small one's might not be bad. Once you can beat them consistently, you can move up. I'd check out the 1-table forum, but something like 30% return on investment is considered decent.

Remember, don't lose more than you can afford to. That means don't play with more than you can afford to lose. You aren't a winning player right now. If that $300 is important to you for anything other than entertainment value, don't play with it.

Will

[ QUOTE ]
Wow tough love. I'll live and learn or die as a fish. You' ll see me at the finall table. I came too dam far to quite now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Beside all the good advice given to you in this thread, I think this line points somewhat towards a problem with gambling in general, and not just with your poker skill, and its actually kind of scary. I really recommend you quit until you at least have fundamental knowledge of the game for one, and I don't mean this as an insult. If you have a gambling problem, you need to get away from it before it completely ruins you, and from what I get in this thread it sounds like you might be on that road.

[Rocco]

I wouldn't recommend the $5 SNG's because of the rake. Move up to the $10's instead, that's what I do when my bankroll is short.

I gather you like playing tournaments, but I recommend you play some micro no limit ring games for a while. Play some .05-.10 or .10-.20 ring games until you can consistently beat them.

If you do this you can sit there and play premium hands (no-one notices) at this level and break even or make a small gain until you get your experiance up. MTT's can make you a lot of money fast, but you can go for weeks without cashing if you catch some bad luck or are not a good player. Stick to the lowest limits until you can beat them consistently (for at least a month) and then consider moving up.

[burningyen]

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't recommend the $5 SNG's because of the rake. Move up to the $10's instead, that's what I do when my bankroll is short.

[/ QUOTE ]
Or play at a site like UB that charges 10% rake on $5 and smaller SnGs.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't recommend the $5 SNG's because of the rake. Move up to the $10's instead, that's what I do when my bankroll is short.

[/ QUOTE ]
Or play at a site like UB that charges 10% rake on $5 and smaller SnGs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, stars, which is where the OP plays.