View Full Version : When to take the free card
Let's say you have the following situation,
CO open limps, you call on the button with T9o, SB folds and BB raises. Flop is J8x rainbow. BB bets, CO folds, and you raise, BB calls. Turn is a Ten. BB checks to you. Do you bet here or take the free card? Let's assume typical LAG 5/10 opponents.
wackjob
10-11-2005, 11:57 AM
Why are you limping with 109o?
[ QUOTE ]
Why are you limping with 109o?
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok anybody want to actually answer the question.
wackjob
10-11-2005, 12:48 PM
You ought to answer my question. The fundamnetal flaw in your question is that the situation shouldn't arise in the first place. You are worrying about how to play on the flop/turn when your mistake occurred before the flop.
TomBrooks
10-11-2005, 01:04 PM
I proceed on the assumption that BB has Jacks or better, is afraid you have a better hand because you raised him on the flop and that we likely have to improve to win, so I take the free card.
[ QUOTE ]
You ought to answer my question. The fundamnetal flaw in your question is that the situation shouldn't arise in the first place. You are worrying about how to play on the flop/turn when your mistake occurred before the flop.
[/ QUOTE ]
Because there is a weak limper, I'm on the button and T9o is a decent hand, especially if the SB comes along.
pheasant tail (no 18)
10-11-2005, 02:21 PM
It is an easy bet.
You are best a large portion of the time and do not want to give a free card.
You usually have many outs if behind and can stand some heat if raised.
You will likely get the option of taking a free showdown if you don't like the river card.
JohnnyHumongous
10-11-2005, 02:24 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I proceed on the assumption that BB has Jacks or better, is afraid you have a better hand because you raised him on the flop and that we likely have to improve to win, so I take the free card.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is definitely too weak.
wackjob
10-11-2005, 02:28 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Because there is a weak limper, I'm on the button and T9o is a decent hand, especially if the SB comes along.
[/ QUOTE ]
You are a fish.
waffle
10-11-2005, 02:56 PM
[ QUOTE ]
there are two weak limpers
[/ QUOTE ]
there, fixed that for you. do some pokerstoving and discover that you have an equity deficit.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
there are two weak limpers
[/ QUOTE ]
there, fixed that for you. do some pokerstoving and discover that you have an equity deficit.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmm you're probably right, but I did a pokerstove analysis and I have a slight equity edge vs a weak limper (limping with about 34% of hands) and a random hand. about 36 to 28 to 34. I figure with positional advantage that could easily be bumped up a couple of more percent. I guess the situation is probably marginal and with 2 weak limpers it definitely becomes +EV.
baronzeus
10-11-2005, 03:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Why are you limping with 109o?
[/ QUOTE ]
if the limp is -EV, it's not very -EV, and he has the button. Definitely not terrible by any means. JTo would be an easy limp IMO.
I dont personally like the limp unless ive been beating up the other limper for a while. I think we bet turn here, and check river ui or pending a better read, my newer question. is if the turn bet gets CR, do we fold to his river bet ui?????????????
thanks
chris
waffle
10-11-2005, 03:51 PM
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 42.8807 % 41.35% 01.53% { 55+, A2s+, K4s+, Q6s+, J7s+, T7s+, 98s,
A4o+, K8o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o }
Hand 2: 28.8814 % 27.54% 01.34% { T9o }
Hand 3: 28.2379 % 27.10% 01.13% { random }
</pre><hr />
that's a 34% limper.. here's a 40%.
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 41.2571 % 39.76% 01.49% { 44+, A2s+, K2s+, Q4s+, J7s+, T7s+, 97s+,
87s, A3o+, K7o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T8o+ }
Hand 2: 29.9692 % 28.67% 01.30% { T9o }
Hand 3: 28.7737 % 27.58% 01.19% { random }
</pre><hr />
Stefan_K
10-11-2005, 04:01 PM
no it would be very bad to take a free card here, you have very likely the best hand. bet, and if you get raised you have a cuple of outs, and will maybee call the river even if you dont hit
mantasm
10-11-2005, 04:03 PM
You can probably throw out 88/99+, AT/AJ+, A9s+, KJ+, KTs+ because he'd raise with them. Maybe some others. I'd like to see the results.
waffle
10-11-2005, 04:03 PM
Good idea. I wasn't thinking clearly. /images/graemlins/frown.gif
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 38.4120 % 36.71% 01.71% { 99-44, A8s-A2s, K9s-K2s, Q4s+, J7s+, T7s+, 97s+, 87s, ATo-A3o, KTo-K7o, Q8o+, J8o+, T9o }
Hand 2: 31.2595 % 29.78% 01.48% { T9o }
Hand 3: 30.3284 % 29.04% 01.29% { random }
</pre><hr />
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 37.5065 % 35.72% 01.78% { 77-44, A8s-A2s, K9s-K2s, Q9s-Q4s, J7s+, T7s+, 97s+, 87s, A9o-A3o, K9o-K7o, QTo-Q8o, J8o+, T9o }
Hand 2: 31.9721 % 30.43% 01.55% { T9o }
Hand 3: 30.5214 % 29.19% 01.33% { random }
</pre><hr />
baronzeus
10-11-2005, 04:17 PM
if you limp you can expect SB to come with almost any 2. also you have the button. 30% equity 3 ways is more than enough. put in 65s into that and do that as well. i limp both of those hands behind a bad limper.
waffle
10-11-2005, 04:23 PM
yeah, positional advantage + skill advantage make it ok. i just don't do it because i'm a nit.
[ QUOTE ]
You can probably throw out 88/99+, AT/AJ+, A9s+, KJ+, KTs+ because he'd raise with them. Maybe some others. I'd like to see the results.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's what i was thinking, I gave him 34% limping hands, ie someone that is like >50% VPIP. I may have given him too great a range. I think it's marginal and I can see a fold being correct. I still think with the button this can be a +EV situation especially if SB comes along.
DMBFan23
10-11-2005, 04:34 PM
I think this is an easy easy bet, he has a smaller pair or unimproved overcards a large amount of the time, and you can call with your pair+OESD if checkraised and play some poker on the river.
P.S. anyone else notice that "play some poker" usually means "I don't know what the hell I'd do"
ddubois
10-11-2005, 04:38 PM
[ QUOTE ]
You are a fish.
[/ QUOTE ]
This post is awful.
sweetjazz
10-11-2005, 05:32 PM
[ QUOTE ]
P.S. anyone else notice that "play some poker" usually means "I don't know what the hell I'd do"
[/ QUOTE ]
Au contraire, it means I know exactly what I'd do, but I have no idea whether it's right or not, so I am not going to suggest a line and risk being viewed as wrong by the forum.
/images/graemlins/smile.gif
baronzeus
10-11-2005, 05:38 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
P.S. anyone else notice that "play some poker" usually means "I don't know what the hell I'd do"
[/ QUOTE ]
Au contraire, it means I know exactly what I'd do, but I have no idea whether it's right or not, so I am not going to suggest a line and risk being viewed as wrong by the forum.
/images/graemlins/smile.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
wow i totally disagree. "play some poker" means use the reads, actions, timings, feelings of the situation to make a decision. the ability to "play poker" is the difference between a mediocre player and a good player.
ArturiusX
10-11-2005, 07:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You are a fish.
[/ QUOTE ]
This post is awful.
[/ QUOTE ]
All his posts are awful.
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