KQo UTG

[Obliky]

Just had a horrible session on stars...when reviewing my play i came across this hand. I guess the 2 questions i want answering are:

1, You have KQo UTG in a loose but slightly aggressive game, do you limp as SSH suggests?

2, Should i be calling the river here, or should i fold any river other than a K/J/Q?

I have no info on Villian, he has been at the table for 1 hand and played a bit loose passive on said hand.

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Preflop: Hero is UTG with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Hero calls, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls, SB folds, BB folds.

Turn: (3 BB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (7 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9 BB

[davelin]

I'd raise pre-flop. There's no way you should consider folding the river. 3-betting the turn is possible on a read.

* grunch *

Actually I think that SSH recommends raising KQo in early position in a very loose game (5-9 players regularly seeing the flop) and calling in a not-so-loose game(less than 5 players seeing the flop). Obviously UTG you didn't know how many players would enter the pot but you did mention that it was a "loose" game.

I think that it could be because you are out of position and it will be difficult to get information on later streets so knowing a raiser has a strong hand in the tighter game has some value?? The other thing I can think of is that in a large multi-way pot the nut straight potential of KQ brings a lot of its value??? I'm really grasping here and would hope for discussion from some the more experienced players. I'm probably like you and play preflop "by the book". Hardly "expert" play but it keeps me out of trouble /images/graemlins/crazy.gif.

If I call on the turn, I call on the river. Is there case for folding on the turn in the small pot??? I never do it with top pair but I'd like to have it confirmed.

[bozlax]

Against an unknown, me likey.

[toss]

Raise it up PF like they say.

Fold if you have a read on CO that says he is passive and his Checkraise means trouble. Reads are important.

[imported_The Vibesman]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually I think that SSH recommends raising KQo in early position in a very loose game (5-9 players regularly seeing the flop) and calling in a not-so-loose game(less than 5 players seeing the flop).

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems counter-intuitive to me. I'm generally in not-so-loose games and I'm raising preflop.

I play this hand the same otherwise.

I raise PF, rest of the hand looks fine against an unknown.

[Obliky]

The general concensus seems to be that raising PF is the way to go...so is this a standard play? Are there any game conditions when rasing PF is not the way to play it?

[toss]

Well... not really. Its only -EV if you misplay postflop. And it can be easy to misplay postflop.

I might limp in a really tight game where the only hands that'll CC/raise are ones that dominate mine, but generally I'll almost always raise. I'm working on toning down my aggression, but I think that PF, the difference is small enough that you can make it up with decent post-flop play.

[Aaron W.]

A preflop raise is meh. Limping is meh. They both work and are both profitable.

You can search the archives for some very extended discussions about KQo and AJo in early positions. The answer that seems to be most likely to be true is that it doesn't matter that much.

[SlantNGo]

I raise this pre-flop... When there are people at your table who will call with worse hands like KT and T9, etc. I think it is a profitable raise.

That being said, given the way you played it, I would dump either on the turn or the river. I think we're drawing to 6 outs or less 80% of the time (or maybe even 90%) on the turn vs. an unknown, and 30-40% of that, we're drawing to 3 outs for a chop. I don't have time to do the EV calculation now, but this pot is not big enough to call down IMO.