$11's: ITM... Another Fck'in 3rd!

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

Ok, here is my ITM play... please HELP!

BTW, I posted a hand yesterday where I called ITM w/ A9 and the advice was not to call with that hand... baring a good read... so I did not call with some good HU hands... especially since this table was tight ITM as you will see...

Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1478)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (3270)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (3252)
jamievosmus posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ 2h, 4c ]
pleasefold53 folds.
Dr_Jeckyl_00 folds.

Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1478)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (3270)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (3252)
pleasefold53 posts small blind (150)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ 3s, 9c ]
jamievosmus: he caught his j set
jamievosmus folds.
Dr_Jeckyl_00: yes, set on flop
pleasefold53 raises (1328) to 1478
pleasefold53 is all-In.
jamievosmus: and i caught 2 pair
jamievosmus: and so did dummy
Dr_Jeckyl_00 folds.

Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1778)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (2970)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (3252)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 posts small blind (150)
jamievosmus posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ 8s, Ah ]
pleasefold53: i mean that big blind on
pleasefold53: one
pleasefold53 raises (1778) to 1778
pleasefold53 is all-In.
Dr_Jeckyl_00: so did the other guy A8 = 2 pr
Dr_Jeckyl_00 folds.
jamievosmus folds.

Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (2228)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (2820)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (2952)
jamievosmus posts small blind (150)
pleasefold53 posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ Ad, Qc ]
Dr_Jeckyl_00 raises (2820) to 2820
Dr_Jeckyl_00 is all-In.
jamievosmus folds.
pleasefold53 folds.

Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1928)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (3270)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (2802)
pleasefold53 posts small blind (150)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ 9s, Kh ]
jamievosmus folds.
pleasefold53 calls (150)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 raises (2970) to 3270
Dr_Jeckyl_00 is all-In.
pleasefold53 folds.

Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1628)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (3570)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (2802)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 posts small blind (150)
jamievosmus posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ 4s, 4c ]
pleasefold53 folds.
Dr_Jeckyl_00 raises (3420) to 3570
Dr_Jeckyl_00 is all-In.
jamievosmus calls (2502)
jamievosmus is all-In.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 2d, 8d, 6d ]
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 8h ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 2s ]
** Summary **
pleasefold53 balance 1628, didn't bet (folded)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 balance 768, bet 3570, collected 768, lost -2802 [ 4s 4c ] [ two pairs, eights and fours -- 8d,8h,6d,4s,4c ]
jamievosmus balance 5604, bet 2802, collected 5604, net +2802 [ Ad 9d ] [ a flush, ace high -- Ad,9d,8d,6d,2d ]

Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1628)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (768)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (5604)
jamievosmus posts small blind (200)
pleasefold53 posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ Kh, Qh ]
Dr_Jeckyl_00 raises (768) to 768
Dr_Jeckyl_00 is all-In.
jamievosmus folds.
pleasefold53 folds.

Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1228)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (1368)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (5404)
pleasefold53 posts small blind (200)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ 8h, Ac ]
jamievosmus folds.
pleasefold53 folds.

Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1028)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (1568)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (5404)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 posts small blind (200)
jamievosmus posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ 4s, Qc ]
pleasefold53 raises (1028) to 1028
pleasefold53 is all-In.
Dr_Jeckyl_00 folds.
jamievosmus folds.

Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1628)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (1368)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (5004)
jamievosmus posts small blind (200)
pleasefold53 posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ 9s, 2c ]
Dr_Jeckyl_00 folds.
jamievosmus folds.

Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1828)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (1368)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (4804)
pleasefold53 posts small blind (200)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ 3d, 9s ]
jamievosmus folds.
pleasefold53 folds.

Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1628)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (1568)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (4804)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 posts small blind (200)
jamievosmus posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ 3c, 8d ]
pleasefold53 folds.
Dr_Jeckyl_00 folds.

Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1628)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (1368)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (5004)
jamievosmus posts small blind (200)
pleasefold53 posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ 7d, 8c ]
Dr_Jeckyl_00 folds.
jamievosmus folds.

Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1828)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (1368)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (4804)
pleasefold53 posts small blind (200)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ 2c, Kh ]
jamievosmus folds.
pleasefold53 folds.

Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1628)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (1568)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (4804)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 posts small blind (200)
jamievosmus posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ 4h, 6c ]
pleasefold53 raises (1628) to 1628
pleasefold53 is all-In.
Dr_Jeckyl_00 folds.
jamievosmus folds.

Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (2228)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (1368)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (4404)
jamievosmus posts small blind (200)
pleasefold53 posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ Ac, Th ]
Dr_Jeckyl_00 raises (1368) to 1368
Dr_Jeckyl_00 is all-In.
jamievosmus folds.
pleasefold53 folds.

Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1828)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (1968)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (4204)
pleasefold53 posts small blind (250)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 posts big blind (500)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ 4h, Th ]
jamievosmus folds.
pleasefold53 folds.

Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1578)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (2218)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (4204)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 posts small blind (250)
jamievosmus posts big blind (500)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ Ks, Ts ]
pleasefold53 raises (1578) to 1578
pleasefold53 is all-In.
Dr_Jeckyl_00 folds.
jamievosmus folds.

Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (2328)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (1968)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (3704)
jamievosmus posts small blind (250)
pleasefold53 posts big blind (500)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ 2c, 4s ]
Dr_Jeckyl_00 folds.
jamievosmus raises (750) to 1000
pleasefold53 folds.

Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1828)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (1968)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (4204)
pleasefold53 posts small blind (250)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 posts big blind (500)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ Qd, 6s ]
jamievosmus folds.
pleasefold53 raises (1578) to 1828
pleasefold53 is all-In.
Dr_Jeckyl_00 folds.

After posting blind I have t1218 left... so I made a move... I thought a good push from SB... did I rush this b/c obviously my hand had no strength...
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (2328)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (1468)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (4204)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 posts small blind (250)
jamievosmus posts big blind (500)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ 8h, 3h ]
pleasefold53 folds.
Dr_Jeckyl_00 raises (1218) to 1468
Dr_Jeckyl_00 is all-In.
jamievosmus calls (968)
Creating Main Pot with $2936 with Dr_Jeckyl_00
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Tc, 9h, Qc ]
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 9c ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 8s ]
** Summary **
Main Pot: 2936 |
Board: [ Tc 9h Qc 9c 8s ]
pleasefold53 balance 2328, didn't bet (folded)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 balance 0, lost 1468 [ 8h 3h ] [ two pairs, nines and eights -- Qc,9h,9c,8h,8s ]
jamievosmus balance 5672, bet 1468, collected 2936, net +1468 [ Qh As ] [ two pairs, queens and nines -- As,Qh,Qc,9h,9c ]

[darkcore]

i think you played it well, except for the last hand. pushing total garbage into the big stack is not a good idea. especially when he holds a good hand.

i'd fold. you have two more hands where you can push before the big blind cripples you and it can't get much worse than 83s. just my $0.02.

[EricW]

[ QUOTE ]
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1578)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (2218)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (4204)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 posts small blind (250)
jamievosmus posts big blind (500)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ Ks, Ts ]
pleasefold53 raises (1578) to 1578
pleasefold53 is all-In.
Dr_Jeckyl_00 folds.
jamievosmus folds.


[/ QUOTE ]

POOOOOOOSH!!

[Nicholasp27]

i disagree

calling his utg push with kt here is -ev imo

[Nicholasp27]

well, u wanted a better hand to push with in case he wakes up with a hand, but u only had 3bbs...if u wait for a better hand they will most def call u and then it's basically not much better than a coinflip and u have far fewer chips

the blinds were 50% of your stack and u had fe...u got unlucky that he got dealt aq...80% of the time he's folding and u are picking up 50% of ur stack in blinds

[EricW]

[ QUOTE ]
i disagree

calling his utg push with kt here is -ev imo

[/ QUOTE ]

I beg to differ. It's not like UTG's push is his only push. He's pushed multiple times. Look at the blinds, they're huge. Not only that, but hero has villain covered. Once you're ITM, you can make some more liberal calls and raises especially when you're this far ahead and the blinds are enormous.

I posted my push post before I even plugged it into SNPT. I just plugged it in and assuming that the villain is pushing with the top 25% of hands (which is a huge underestimation of his pushing range) it's and EV of +0.5.

Not pushing would be terrible.

Yeah, my hand is going all in with the KsTs as well. Not sure what the reads at the table were, but this all in could mean anything. Low pocket pair which you have over cards to, QJ, J10,...as well as made hands, but I don't think you can worry about that at this point.

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1578)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (2218)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (4204)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 posts small blind (250)
jamievosmus posts big blind (500)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ Ks, Ts ]
pleasefold53 raises (1578) to 1578
pleasefold53 is all-In.
Dr_Jeckyl_00 folds.
jamievosmus folds.


[/ QUOTE ]

POOOOOOOSH!!

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not a push... villain pushed before I could... are you suggesting to call show down w/ KT? As stated in opening sentance I was told to not to call with A9, which is much stronger ITM than KT... I planned to push KT, but villain beat me to it...

[EricW]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1578)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (2218)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (4204)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 posts small blind (250)
jamievosmus posts big blind (500)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ Ks, Ts ]
pleasefold53 raises (1578) to 1578
pleasefold53 is all-In.
Dr_Jeckyl_00 folds.
jamievosmus folds.


[/ QUOTE ]

POOOOOOOSH!!

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not a push... villain pushed before I could... are you suggesting to call show down w/ KT? As stated in opening sentance I was told to not to call with A9, which is much stronger ITM than KT... I planned to push KT, but villain beat me to it...

[/ QUOTE ]

It IS a push. It's a clear push. I just read your thread about A9 and the situation is totally different because the blinds with A9 were significantly less than the blinds here. The blinds here are 250/500. The villain's pushing range are HUUUGE. Like I said, if it's as low as 25% (which is a ridiculous estimation because the villain is probably pushing any decent face card at this point) then it's a +0.5 EV. Not only that, you have the villain covered in chips which contributes to the +EV pushing.

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

[ QUOTE ]

It IS a push. It's a clear push. I just read your thread about A9 and the situation is totally different because the blinds with A9 were significantly less than the blinds here. The blinds here are 250/500. The villain's pushing range are HUUUGE. Like I said, if it's as low as 25% (which is a ridiculous estimation because the villain is probably pushing any decent face card at this point) then it's a +0.5 EV. Not only that, you have the villain covered in chips which contributes to the +EV pushing.

[/ QUOTE ] The size of the blinds may be an important fact that differenciates this hand from the A9 hand as you suggest, but how does my having more chips than villain affect EV+? He is all in and I can't make him fold. If I lose I am out in a hand or two...

[unfrgvn]

I don't see where you missed many spots, sometimes it be's that way. Pleasfold53 needs a lesson in pot odds:

Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1628)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (768)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (5604)
jamievosmus posts small blind (200)
pleasefold53 posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ Kh, Qh ]
Dr_Jeckyl_00 raises (768) to 768
Dr_Jeckyl_00 is all-In.
jamievosmus folds.
pleasefold53 folds.

He is getting 3.7 -1 for 1/4 of his stack, really bad fold even though you had a little something.

[SonnyJay]

The enormous blinds affect EV in a few ways.

Most importantly, your opponent's range of cards he could be pushing with is huge. He has a small stack, and he's getting to the point that he has to push anything if he has fold equity. Your KT is ahead of many hands he could push with. Related to this...

You can't wait forever here. Like you said, if you lose with KT you're out in a hand or two, but if you fold 6 hands you've lost almost your entire stack.

I briefly looked at your A9 thread, and the raiser had 53 BBs and could afford to call with a chance to knock you out. You also had 10 BBs. You have time to wait for a better situation and will have some fold equity when you do. Here, if you continue to wait you'll leave yourself crippled. If you have a good chance at being the best here (which you do more than I think you're giving yourself credit for), you have to take it.

Take a look at this sequence as a quick illustration of the blinds effect.

[ QUOTE ]
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1628)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (3570)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (2802)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 posts small blind (150)
jamievosmus posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ 4s, 4c ]
pleasefold53 folds.
Dr_Jeckyl_00 raises (3420) to 3570
Dr_Jeckyl_00 is all-In.
jamievosmus calls (2502)
jamievosmus is all-In.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 2d, 8d, 6d ]
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 8h ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 2s ]
** Summary **
pleasefold53 balance 1628, didn't bet (folded)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 balance 768, bet 3570, collected 768, lost -2802 [ 4s 4c ] [ two pairs, eights and fours -- 8d,8h,6d,4s,4c ]
jamievosmus balance 5604, bet 2802, collected 5604, net +2802 [ Ad 9d ] [ a flush, ace high -- Ad,9d,8d,6d,2d ]

Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1628)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (768)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (5604)
jamievosmus posts small blind (200)
pleasefold53 posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ Kh, Qh ]
Dr_Jeckyl_00 raises (768) to 768
Dr_Jeckyl_00 is all-In.
jamievosmus folds.
pleasefold53 folds.

Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1228)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (1368)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (5404)
pleasefold53 posts small blind (200)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ 8h, Ac ]
jamievosmus folds.
pleasefold53 folds.

Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1028)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (1568)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (5404)

[/ QUOTE ]

You got called in a coinflip situation, lost, was crippled, picked up blinds twice, and you're back in second place.

The big blinds mean that you must make plays that you wouldn't make with smaller blinds, and you must take into account that your opponent will be doing the same.

-SonnyJay

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

It IS a push. It's a clear push. I just read your thread about A9 and the situation is totally different because the blinds with A9 were significantly less than the blinds here. The blinds here are 250/500. The villain's pushing range are HUUUGE. Like I said, if it's as low as 25% (which is a ridiculous estimation because the villain is probably pushing any decent face card at this point) then it's a +0.5 EV. Not only that, you have the villain covered in chips which contributes to the +EV pushing.

[/ QUOTE ] The size of the blinds may be an important fact that differenciates this hand from the A9 hand as you suggest, but how does my having more chips than villain affect EV+? He is all in and I can't make him fold. If I lose I am out in a hand or two...

[/ QUOTE ]

They are right, this is much closer to a call (over push) than the A9 hand.

This is the way I look at it. What am _I_ pushing when its 3 handed, I am UTG and the blind is about to eat 1/3 or more of my stack? Ill push anything in the top 50% easily!!! I would call a push from a small stack HU with KTs, so i probably would here as well.

[SonnyJay]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see where you missed many spots, sometimes it be's that way. Pleasfold53 needs a lesson in pot odds:

Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1628)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (768)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (5604)
jamievosmus posts small blind (200)
pleasefold53 posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ Kh, Qh ]
Dr_Jeckyl_00 raises (768) to 768
Dr_Jeckyl_00 is all-In.
jamievosmus folds.
pleasefold53 folds.

He is getting 3.7 -1 for 1/4 of his stack, really bad fold even though you had a little something.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah this is really bad. He should call if they only dealt him one card, or dealt him the barcode card.

I probably make a note of this and expand my raising standards to some degree, as at least one of my opponents seems to lack knowledge of pot odds as the blinds increase. Not very much because he's not directly to your left, but it's useful to remember nonetheless.

Actually...anyone else a little more nervous about the KT call given this situation? I still make it, but he doesn't seem to have a ton of understanding of the effect of blinds. I'm not calling much worse than KT.

-SonnyJay

[RobGW]

Let me give you some helpful advice. Don't ask what you should do in a particular situation. Ask why. You need to understand the variables and considerations of each situation. Sometimes people get told one thing and apply that same advice to a totally different situation. Once you know what you need to consider you can make each decision on your own and you won't have to ask "Should I call hear, should I push here" anymore.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
Let me give you some helpful advice. Don't ask what you should do in a particular situation. Ask why. You need to understand the variables and considerations of each situation. Sometimes people get told one thing and apply that same advice to a totally different situation. Once you know what you need to consider you can make each decision on your own and you won't have to ask "Should I call hear, should I push here" anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

good post.

This is coming up a lot lately. I think with all of the recources around now on how to play poker, it is reassuring that people still don't understand the underlying concepts and how the different variables affect eachother.

DJ,

Do you see how the A9 hand had less to do with the cards and more to do with the blinds? And do you see how this hand has more to do with UTG's stack, and position and size of the blinds and how you could literally put him on ne2?

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Let me give you some helpful advice. Don't ask what you should do in a particular situation. Ask why. You need to understand the variables and considerations of each situation. Sometimes people get told one thing and apply that same advice to a totally different situation. Once you know what you need to consider you can make each decision on your own and you won't have to ask "Should I call hear, should I push here" anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

good post.

This is coming up a lot lately. I think with all of the recources around now on how to play poker, it is reassuring that people still don't understand the underlying concepts and how the different variables affect eachother.

DJ,

Do you see how the A9 hand had less to do with the cards and more to do with the blinds? And do you see how this hand has more to do with UTG's stack, and position and size of the blinds and how you could literally put him on ne2?

[/ QUOTE ]

A9o Hand...
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 3: BigCahuna52 (5335)
Seat 4: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (1175)
Seat 5: bmh143 (1490)
BigCahuna52 posts small blind (50)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 posts big blind (100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ As, 9c ]
bmh143 folds.
BigCahuna52 raises (450) to 500
Dr_Jeckyl_00 raises (1075) to 1175
Dr_Jeckyl_00 is all-In.
BigCahuna52 calls (675)
Creating Main Pot with $2350 with Dr_Jeckyl_00
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Ts, 3c, 3s ]
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 8h ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 7h ]
** Summary **
Main Pot: 2350 |
Board: [ Ts 3c 3s 8h 7h ]
BigCahuna52 balance 6510, bet 1175, collected 2350, net +1175 [ 2h 2c ] [ two pairs, threes and twos -- Ts,3c,3s,2h,2c ]
Dr_Jeckyl_00 balance 0, lost 1175 [ As 9c ] [ a pair of threes -- As,Ts,9c,3c,3s ]
bmh143 balance 1490, didn't bet (folded)

KTs Hand
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1578)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (2218)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (4204)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 posts small blind (250)
jamievosmus posts big blind (500)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ Ks, Ts ]
pleasefold53 raises (1578) to 1578
pleasefold53 is all-In.
Dr_Jeckyl_00 folds.
jamievosmus folds.

Yes, I understand.

The A9 hand I had 11BB left if I fold, and the chip leader is not likely folding here (pot odds) so I have no FE. There are plenty of places to come for me to be first in the pot.

The KTs hand... no one can afford to wait for cards here b/c the blinds are so large. KTs is about 62% against a random hand, and 42% against a range of strong hands... so I am probably even getting correct odds to call, in addition to having a strong hand. So even if I called and lost, I would be correct to call (I have some chips left to get me through next 3 hands... and with blinds so large it is easy enough to build a stack... if my cards hold up..

Thanks everyone. This is why I posted this HH.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Let me give you some helpful advice. Don't ask what you should do in a particular situation. Ask why. You need to understand the variables and considerations of each situation. Sometimes people get told one thing and apply that same advice to a totally different situation. Once you know what you need to consider you can make each decision on your own and you won't have to ask "Should I call hear, should I push here" anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

good post.

This is coming up a lot lately. I think with all of the recources around now on how to play poker, it is reassuring that people still don't understand the underlying concepts and how the different variables affect eachother.

DJ,

Do you see how the A9 hand had less to do with the cards and more to do with the blinds? And do you see how this hand has more to do with UTG's stack, and position and size of the blinds and how you could literally put him on ne2?

[/ QUOTE ]

A9o Hand...
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 3: BigCahuna52 (5335)
Seat 4: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (1175)
Seat 5: bmh143 (1490)
BigCahuna52 posts small blind (50)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 posts big blind (100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ As, 9c ]
bmh143 folds.
BigCahuna52 raises (450) to 500
Dr_Jeckyl_00 raises (1075) to 1175
Dr_Jeckyl_00 is all-In.
BigCahuna52 calls (675)
Creating Main Pot with $2350 with Dr_Jeckyl_00
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Ts, 3c, 3s ]
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 8h ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 7h ]
** Summary **
Main Pot: 2350 |
Board: [ Ts 3c 3s 8h 7h ]
BigCahuna52 balance 6510, bet 1175, collected 2350, net +1175 [ 2h 2c ] [ two pairs, threes and twos -- Ts,3c,3s,2h,2c ]
Dr_Jeckyl_00 balance 0, lost 1175 [ As 9c ] [ a pair of threes -- As,Ts,9c,3c,3s ]
bmh143 balance 1490, didn't bet (folded)

KTs Hand
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1578)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (2218)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (4204)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 posts small blind (250)
jamievosmus posts big blind (500)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ Ks, Ts ]
pleasefold53 raises (1578) to 1578
pleasefold53 is all-In.
Dr_Jeckyl_00 folds.
jamievosmus folds.

Yes, I understand.

The A9 hand I had 11BB left if I fold, and the chip leader is not likely folding here (pot odds) so I have no FE. There are plenty of places to come for me to be first in the pot.

The KTs hand... no one can afford to wait for cards here b/c the blinds are so large. KTs is about 62% against a random hand, and 42% against a range of strong hands... so I am probably even getting correct odds to call, in addition to having a strong hand. So even if I called and lost, I would be correct to call (I have some chips left to get me through next 3 hands... and with blinds so large it is easy enough to build a stack... if my cards hold up..

Thanks everyone. This is why I posted this HH.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just wanted to add one more thing. I think its important to understand the difference between these two hands, and at the same time realize that the KT hand could go either way. I dont think its a must call, I just don't think its wrong not to push it. While the A9 hand I felt was a lot more clear a fold-even though its a better starting two.

[The Yugoslavian]

You sound almost like ace_in_the_hole (who has been behaving *quite* well lately.../images/graemlins/shocked.gif).

As for the HHs I looked over them quickly and only really mind the KTs fold. Also, given the table's actions so far I think I like folding your 83o hand and pushing the next hand blind.

Yugoslav

If the big stack calls 22+,A2+,KTo+,K8s+,QTs+ (25%) or less, it's more than a +.5% EV difference in SNG PT.

Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1628)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (1568)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (4804)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 posts small blind (200)
jamievosmus posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ 3c, 8d ]
pleasefold53 folds.
Dr_Jeckyl_00 folds.


Just some random numbers: if BB has a 'maniac' call range, and SB calls 30%, it's +1.3% EV difference. (This is with the option Edit>Equity Modeling at 50% for both. If you lower the big blind discount or something to 0%, this is +.5%. I don't remember exactly what this option means, but it takes the blinds into consideration in the next hand. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1628)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (1368)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (5004)
jamievosmus posts small blind (200)
pleasefold53 posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ 7d, 8c ]
Dr_Jeckyl_00 folds.
jamievosmus folds.

Does anyone push these hands? If they are just a liiittle tight, you can push pretty much any hand in this situation.

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

[ QUOTE ]
You sound almost like ace_in_the_hole (who has been behaving *quite* well lately.../images/graemlins/shocked.gif).

As for the HHs I looked over them quickly and only really mind the KTs fold. Also, given the table's actions so far I think I like folding your 83o hand and pushing the next hand blind.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

I would be pushing from UTG/Button on the next hand. how is pushing any hand better here? I would think pushing from sb is better, unless I get a stronger hand when I am utg/button... are you saying that my hand is so weak here that it can only get better than 84s... even though I will be OOP...

[The Yugoslavian]

Well I think you have more FE if this big stack isn't in the BB and you also gain more by going up against the shorter stack. If you can get the shorter stack to forfeit his BB then it's a huge coupe, obviously, as well and he's shown before he has no idea of what pot odds entail.

Generally, I'd rather push trash from the SB but given these players I think you may gain more waiting a hand (you also will generally have a stronger hand than 83 or whatever which helps).

Yugoslav

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

[ QUOTE ]
Well I think you have more FE if this big stack isn't in the BB and you also gain more by going up against the shorter stack. If you can get the shorter stack to forfeit his BB then it's a huge coupe, obviously, as well and he's shown before he has no idea of what pot odds entail.

Generally, I'd rather push trash from the SB but given these players I think you may gain more waiting a hand (you also will generally have a stronger hand than 83 or whatever which helps).

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice analysis of the situation... I need to get better at that myself. Thanks again Yugo!

I surprisingly didn't see any comments on this hand:

Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1778)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (2970)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (3252)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 posts small blind (150)
jamievosmus posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ 8s, Ah ]
pleasefold53: i mean that big blind on
pleasefold53: one
pleasefold53 raises (1778) to 1778
pleasefold53 is all-In.
Dr_Jeckyl_00: so did the other guy A8 = 2 pr
Dr_Jeckyl_00 folds.
jamievosmus folds.
*****

I almost never fold this.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well I think you have more FE if this big stack isn't in the BB and you also gain more by going up against the shorter stack. If you can get the shorter stack to forfeit his BB then it's a huge coupe, obviously, as well and he's shown before he has no idea of what pot odds entail.

Generally, I'd rather push trash from the SB but given these players I think you may gain more waiting a hand (you also will generally have a stronger hand than 83 or whatever which helps).

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice analysis of the situation... I need to get better at that myself. Thanks again Yugo!

[/ QUOTE ]

No problem.

Now that I think about it a bit more I don't mind pushing both this hand and the next as these guys have been way too tight so far and you haven't really dialed up too much aggression. Although generally even a fairly tight big stack here will be calling with a large range. They are not too likely to spite call on your second push and with both pushes you really increase your stack and FE vs. the big stack for more pushing (you are in an ideal position to push into him if shorty keeps folding). Since he keeps folding to shorty anyway, once you have a chip cushion you can just let your weak btn hands go. Basically what I'm saying is that given the texture of the table you are in an ideal position to really benefit if you can get a hold of a few more chips.

All that being said, ITM most opponents don't stay way too tight for long (or if at all) so I'd rather just fold the 83 and push the next hand to punish my compeitition for second.

Yugoslav

[Hendricks433]

Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: pleasefold53 (1578)
Seat 3: Dr_Jeckyl_00 (2218)
Seat 9: jamievosmus (4204)
Dr_Jeckyl_00 posts small blind (250)
jamievosmus posts big blind (500)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dr_Jeckyl_00 [ Ks, Ts ]
pleasefold53 raises (1578) to 1578
pleasefold53 is all-In.
Dr_Jeckyl_00 folds.
jamievosmus folds.

This is the first hand I saw which I think I probally woulda called. Blinds are way too big to pass up on this when the shorty could be pushing so many hands. If your behind youll just suck out right? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

The A8 I might push, Im kind of torn on the hand. Depends how tight they had been to that point.