A question to stox, cup, morg, sublime, and any other Party affils

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
We have developed the offer and the mechanisms for converting an old Party account to a new PartyPoker based on straight-forward representations with PartyPoker. The commitments that we made in our offer will be implemented in conjunction with Party Poker directly. There are no "work around" solutions involved in our offer. Accounts have already been converted doing exactly what we committed to in our offer.

[/ QUOTE ]

That statement was made by stoxtrader in Internet forum.

[ QUOTE ]
I have just gotten off the phone with an affiliate manager at Party. He told me several times that rakeback is NOT endorsed by Party at this time. Any affiliate who is currently offering rakeback is doing so without Party’s consent and at his own risk.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is from cup's sticky at the top of this forum.

In addition to these comments, we have seen numerous offers from our existing affiliates, spammers, posters here, etc. that feel like they have varying degrees of trustworthiness.

--

I have no vested interest in any of these guys. But I am planning to play some high-limit games at Party. I am not going to get involved w/ anything shady given the amounts of money I typically keep in my accounts, but if I can get rakeback legitimately from Party, then I will obviously want to do that. If not, I will play my existing account and CPC will get paid.

There are many players like me, who want to play at Party with the best possible deal for themselves possible. It benefits all of us, and brings a lot of credibility to this forum if various affiliates can speak openly about who has really talked to Party, who is just talking to larger affiliates, and so forth. Without this type of open discussion, it is very hard for many of us to make an informed decision. That is all I, and many others here, are looking to do.

I hope this thread provides an opportunity for individuals (and I am specifically talking about people who have developed a degree of trust within the 2+2 community) to speak candidly about what they have been told by Party and what kind of commitments they can make and stand behind.

So, I guess my question to all of you, is: For those of you who deal directly with Party, what have you been told that you are willing to stand behind?

[Willluck]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We have developed the offer and the mechanisms for converting an old Party account to a new PartyPoker based on straight-forward representations with PartyPoker. The commitments that we made in our offer will be implemented in conjunction with Party Poker directly. There are no "work around" solutions involved in our offer. Accounts have already been converted doing exactly what we committed to in our offer.

[/ QUOTE ]

That statement was made by stoxtrader in Internet forum.

[ QUOTE ]
I have just gotten off the phone with an affiliate manager at Party. He told me several times that rakeback is NOT endorsed by Party at this time. Any affiliate who is currently offering rakeback is doing so without Party’s consent and at his own risk.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is from cup's sticky at the top of this forum.

In addition to these comments, we have seen numerous offers from our existing affiliates, spammers, posters here, etc. that feel like they have varying degrees of trustworthiness.

--

I have no vested interest in any of these guys. But I am planning to play some high-limit games at Party. I am not going to get involved w/ anything shady given the amounts of money I typically keep in my accounts, but if I can get rakeback legitimately from Party, then I will obviously want to do that. If not, I will play my existing account and CPC will get paid.

There are many players like me, who want to play at Party with the best possible deal for themselves possible. It benefits all of us, and brings a lot of credibility to this forum if various affiliates can speak openly about who has really talked to Party, who is just talking to larger affiliates, and so forth. Without this type of open discussion, it is very hard for many of us to make an informed decision. That is all I, and many others here, are looking to do.

I hope this thread provides an opportunity for individuals (and I am specifically talking about people who have developed a degree of trust within the 2+2 community) to speak candidly about what they have been told by Party and what kind of commitments they can make and stand behind.

So, I guess my question to all of you, is: For those of you who deal directly with Party, what have you been told that you are willing to stand behind?

[/ QUOTE ]POTY

[CardSharpCook]

Man I hope this thread gets going. Echoes my thoughts exactly. Rakeback's great, but I'll be damned if I'm gonna cook the goose that laid the golden egg. If the worst case scenario really is having funds seized and more importantly, being prohibited from playing on Party then that is unacceptable. Is rakeback approved by party?

[SinCityGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
if I can get rakeback legitimately from Party, then I will obviously want to do that. If not, I will play my existing account and CPC will get paid.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't play as high as El D. does, so I can understand where he's coming from. As for me, the thought of playing under my ancient Party account and donating $30K per year to CardPlayerCruises isn't something that I'm willing to accept, so I hope that some legitimate offers are able to be substantiated in the near future. Right now, I've been mixing some tables on a hodge-podge of different sites, and I've been pleasantly surprised at how many good games I've been able to find. Sure, it's more work in finding good tables, but for me the extra money in rakeback is worth it at this time.

[Azizal]

It seems to me that if anyone gets punished for rb deals it will be the affiliates who offer them, not the players. Can you really see Party banning a player who gets his rake back? Perhaps so, if they think that they will lose the player in either case. But of the two, the former makes a lot more sense. If they cut off the affiliate, they get to keep the player and more of the rake.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems to me that if anyone gets punished for rb deals it will be the affiliates who offer them, not the players. Can you really see Party banning a player who gets his rake back? Perhaps so, if they think that they will lose the player in either case. But of the two, the former makes a lot more sense. If they cut off the affiliate, they get to keep the player and more of the rake.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know people who have had accounts closed and money seized on various sites for reasons ranging from bots to credit card fraud. In some cases, this has been legit. In other cases, very sketchy. So, do I think this is a major risk of entering into a shady affiliate deal? No. Do I think it's a slight possibility with potentially huge consequences? Yes.

The biggest risk right now for players is signing up w/ affiliates who make big promises now and in the very near future say "oh, Party's not allowing rakeback anymore, sorry" and just keep all the rakeback for themselves.

[Tuco]

[ QUOTE ]
So, I guess my question to all of you, is: For those of you who deal directly with Party, what have you been told that you are willing to stand behind?

[/ QUOTE ]

As almost everyone here knows, going to an affiliate manager at Party and asking "does party offer rakeback" is going to get the expected response.

The nature of the affiliate/partypoker relationship is that anyone that knows what is going on behind the scenes is somewhat precluded from telling what they know for obvious reasons. I don't know how to tell you that I know the deal, so you are either going to have to believe me or not. That's up to you.

There is at least one partner at party that I know about that is allowed to offer a "player rewards" program. They have since the birth of the site been allowed to offer it.

So I understand your reluctance to open a rewards account, I can tell you that if you go through the right channel you will be fine. If you ask enough questions when choosing an affiliate, it will become obvious who this provider is.

Tuco.

[Ulysses]

Thanks, tuco. I have sent you a PM. Suffice it to say, there are many things that are apparently commonly known and obvious to many here that I have absolutely no f'in clue about.

[Tuco]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks, tuco. I have sent you a PM. Suffice it to say, there are many things that are apparently commonly known and obvious to many here that I have absolutely no f'in clue about.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your welcome. As far as being in the dark, i'm still trying to comprehend the "how many 5 year old" thing, so I guess that makes us even.

Tuco.

I'm just curious - if you guys are with CPC, why not just contact them? After all, they do have the juice with Party to get things done the right way, not have accounts frozen, etc. I'm sure someone on here can supply the right email address for them, if not, I can.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm just curious - if you guys are with CPC, why not just contact them? After all, they do have the juice with Party to get things done the right way, not have accounts frozen, etc. I'm sure someone on here can supply the right email address for them, if not, I can.

[/ QUOTE ]

My Party account is a non-rakeback acct through CPC. I can't imagine why they would want to start giving me rakeback on that. And I definitely don't want any flags on my account looking for new signups using my name or address or whatever. So, that's why I'm waiting for this stuff to shake out a bit and trying to educate myself as much as possible.

[MILFChaser]

Post deleted by craig r

[Losing all]

Interesting stuff, but shouldn't this post have flashing banners?

[The Dude]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting stuff, but shouldn't this post have flashing banners?

[/ QUOTE ]
There's nothing shady about what he said or where he said it. We're in this forum to find good rakeback deals, and he was adequeately informative to deserve a "PM me for details" plug.

[iMcompliKted]

Well said Diablo. As an affiliate at EuroBet with many players wanting to get set-up at Party I'm not sending out information until I talk to a representative of Party directly. I'm expecting a call, but at the moment they have a lot of affiliates to get so this could take a few days.

[Losing all]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Interesting stuff, but shouldn't this post have flashing banners?

[/ QUOTE ]
There's nothing shady about what he said or where he said it. We're in this forum to find good rakeback deals, and he was adequeately informative to deserve a "PM me for details" plug.

[/ QUOTE ]


It didn't hurt my feelings, man. I just thought the "I'm not doing anything wrong am I?" was kind of funny in a post he knew would be zapped (quickly too, wow).

[The Dude]

[ QUOTE ]
Post deleted by craig r

[/ QUOTE ]
Whoah. This forum is touchy.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
So, that's why I'm waiting for this stuff to shake out a bit and trying to educate myself as much as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's my answer to your question.

IMO, nobody knows as much as they say they do. I have offers on the table that will allow me to offer rakeback on Party, but I want as much info before agreeing to anything for a few reasons. First and foremost being the well being on my players. Sure, I like the extra income being an affiliate provides, but I don't make enough to compensate for Party to tell me one month "Sorry Mike, your in violation of blah blah blah" and me not being able to pay a guy playing for a month money he was banking on.

A lot of posters view the delay in details being presented as signs of screwed behavior, when in fact its the opposite. We are not providing much info, because we dont feel we have as accurate information as we would like (well myslef anyways, and I think I speak for others).

~Mike

[MILFChaser]

Sublime, correct me if I am wrong, but you used your webpage to lure players away from party and to the skins. How can you guarantee your players that in 6 months Party will not turn around and give you the same treatment you gave them?

[stoxtrader]

I will post again in this thread later today after I find out what I can and cannot say.

[bugstud]

I am curious if party accounts with previous rakeback deals will regain the ability to get rakeback.

[ QUOTE ]
I am curious if party accounts with previous rakeback deals will regain the ability to get rakeback.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is being claimed by more than one affiliate on their site is that Party is going to allow you to close your existing account and open a new one with rakeback.

[stoxtrader]

A couple quick things.

1. We are not going to publicly disclose our arrangement on these boards, mostly for competitive reasons.

2. We do not offer [censored]. We offer player award bonuses.

3. verifying this with party may or may not satisfy many of you, basically depends who the email gets too.

4. other affiliates are understandably miffed that we are *somewhat* "first to market". I encourage them to follow suit. Some already have, some may have even beat us, but we might have cast a wider net so to speak.

[otctrader]

This is really turning into a comedy with "secret contacts" and such, you would think this is some Tom Clancy novel or the CIA we're dealing with. I kid you not - I had one spam offer that claimed to have written authorization from Bhargava himself (Dikshit's associate) behind the back of the affiliate managers.

The lack of transparency is necessary because Party doesn't want an uprising from traditional non-RB affiliates, and so RB affiliates can maintain a profit margin. Having middlemen in there complicates matters, but hey that's the system Party set up so we have to play by their rules.

Reality is I'm not sure what Party is worried about - if they piss off Linda Johnson, what's she going to do, sue? The contracts are loosely worded, and CPC probably needs Party more than they need her. Further, Party's stock is chopped in half, so they'll be willing to play dirty.

Morg, stox, et al are a good bunch who stand to lose a ton if this doesn't work out in the long run, so I'm sure they are pursuing the right channels. I really hope this works out for everyone involved, affiliates and players - time will tell.

I can say that I have been affiliated with Stoxtrader for about 5 months and it has been a very positive experience.

Each month I get paid on (usually before) the stated payment date, and I have never had any issues. They have also been very helpful on several instances. One of the biggest things is support, when it says that they will respond to e-mails, they mean it, usually within 10-15 minutes during the day!

I am in no way associated with the site (other than as a user), but I encourage everyone to consider his site, and trust what he says, I am.

Margon

Anyone have any ideas on the semantics of "Player Award Points" vs "Rakeback". PP is going out of their way to disassociate themselves from RB. What are their motivations for doing this and what will this mean to us as players?

[B Dids]

[ QUOTE ]
A couple quick things.

1. We are not going to publicly disclose our arrangement on these boards, mostly for competitive reasons.

2. We do not offer [censored]. We offer player award bonuses.

3. verifying this with party may or may not satisfy many of you, basically depends who the email gets too.

4. other affiliates are understandably miffed that we are *somewhat* "first to market". I encourage them to follow suit. Some already have, some may have even beat us, but we might have cast a wider net so to speak.

[/ QUOTE ]

If feels like everybody is working in something of an information vaccume. Where even if you've been told one thing by a party rep, that may not actually reflect party's policies.

The message that we've got from IntheCup and Raketracker is basically "wait". But I'm sure for them that's feeling risky if somebody else isn't waiting and is signing up players that they used to have.

How realistic is it just for the major affiliates to agree to not take new party signups until the situation is more clearly defined?

I think that the situation is pretty clearly defined, it is just not available for public consumption.

I think that if Stox is ready to take action it is appropriate. I get the feeling that they have been VERY proactive in getting things resovled with Party.

You can wait if you want, I don't think that it would really hurt you, but I don't think that the reputable affiliates who are proceeding forward are doing so inappropriately. (On the other hand I think that there are some who are 'sketchy' who you would want to avoid on this, and all other matters.)

Margon

[Guthrie]

[ QUOTE ]
The biggest risk right now for players is signing up w/ affiliates who make big promises now and in the very near future say "oh, Party's not allowing rakeback anymore, sorry" and just keep all the rakeback for themselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Sniper]

El D,

Sometimes the best play is to be patient and wait for the best hand /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[B Dids]

Explain to me why you think it's defined.

Based on what Craig, ITC and Stox have said, it all sounds like they're getting slightly different interpretations of party's policy.

If it's going to be true that whatever deal exists doesn't have the full approval of party, I would think that signing up with an affiliate and ad a minimum risking losing access to the most profitable pool of players online isn't worth it. (caveat, I don't play for a living, nor do I play often enough where rakeback is a primary concern for me personally)

[greg nice]

it seems somewhat defined. this is what i have gathered.

giving players their rake back is not permitted.

however if an affil wants to 'reward' players for playing under them then that is acceptable.

[B Dids]

This seems like a textbook definition of "not defined". That's the problem. We're all piecing things together.

[MarkD]

People,

I suggest we try and keep this thread clean. How about if you don't have any real knowledge, or anything useful to add, you avoid posting. This could be a fantastic thread, but no need to make it 6 pages when we only need to hear from the few people that really have something to add to the discussion (as noted by the OP).

I know my post adds nothing, but I just want to see some semblance of sanity here so I hope everyone understands.

This will be my only post in this thread (unless I develop a real question that has not already been addressed), so if you feel the need to quote my post and tell me how ironic it is that I added nothing of value while telling everyone else not to post if they don't add any value... well, your joke is real funny and I'm lauging in advance - now you can skip posting it.

[Maulik]

[ QUOTE ]
it seems somewhat defined. this is what i have gathered.

giving players their rake back is not permitted.

however if an affil wants to 'reward' players for playing under them then that is acceptable.

[/ QUOTE ]

where did you hear this?

one of the 2+2'rs said I can get 35% back.

[ QUOTE ]
I am curious if party accounts with previous rakeback deals will regain the ability to get rakeback.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have been emailed this question over and over again. I would love for someone to answer it, I am guessing no.

[MAxx]

[ QUOTE ]
People,

I suggest we try and keep this thread clean. How about if you don't have any real knowledge, or anything useful to add, you avoid posting. This could be a fantastic thread, but no need to make it 6 pages when we only need to hear from the few people that really have something to add to the discussion (as noted by the OP).

I know my post adds nothing, but I just want to see some semblance of sanity here so I hope everyone understands.

This will be my only post in this thread (unless I develop a real question that has not already been addressed), so if you feel the need to quote my post and tell me how ironic it is that I added nothing of value while telling everyone else not to post if they don't add any value... well, your joke is real funny and I'm lauging in advance - now you can skip posting it.

[/ QUOTE ]

MAxx wuzz here, Spring Break 1987

[MILFChaser]

LOL...Tuesday afternoon and everyone is still baffled.
I will repeat what I have said a couple times now.

---I have been an affiliate for 3 years. I have never once lost my ability to give player rewards to select players. My players are enjoying business as usual as I type this.

---All affiliates are not created equal. Some have used public advertising in the past to lure players away from party. Some have remained loyal. Put yourself in Party's shoes and ask yourself who you will cater to 6 months down the road.

---Anyone who doubts my credibility can peruse my past posts although the most informative one was deleted.

Good luck finding your way in this mess.

[KaneKungFu123]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So, that's why I'm waiting for this stuff to shake out a bit and trying to educate myself as much as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's my answer to your question.

IMO, nobody knows as much as they say they do. I have offers on the table that will allow me to offer rakeback on Party, but I want as much info before agreeing to anything for a few reasons. First and foremost being the well being on my players. Sure, I like the extra income being an affiliate provides, but I don't make enough to compensate for Party to tell me one month "Sorry Mike, your in violation of blah blah blah" and me not being able to pay a guy playing for a month money he was banking on.

A lot of posters view the delay in details being presented as signs of screwed behavior, when in fact its the opposite. We are not providing much info, because we dont feel we have as accurate information as we would like (well myslef anyways, and I think I speak for others).

~Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

i wouldnt go anywhere stox.

he has down a nice job advertising, though.

[sublime]

PATIENCE!

I probably don't have as much credibility as others, but in this case I think those who wait will the happiest. I am not going to go into any details, but my educated guess is that old saying "good things come to those who wait" is quite true in this case.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
I can say that I have been affiliated with Stoxtrader for about 5 months and it has been a very positive experience.


[/ QUOTE ]

As long as we're doing this, I'm going to throw in a good word about JaQue. He was patient while I was setting up my account, which ran into some problems, and has been helpful since day one. (Maybe 8 months ago?)

--Dave.