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View Full Version : 33s: BB garbage hand


10-11-2005, 02:22 AM
Party 33s, I've been multitabling and have no real reads. I have a few thoughts but would like other input.

Big Blind is t150 (5 handed) internettexasholdem.com (http://www.internettexasholdem.com)

Hero (t2040)
UTG (t695)
MP (t875)
Button (t2810)
SB (t1580)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t300) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets t275</font>, Hero ?

EricW
10-11-2005, 02:25 AM
I fold. The reverse implied odds are too great and you have a nice stack to work with to get chips from better situations.

10-11-2005, 02:26 AM
Raise it.... pot is 500--- make it 500 more.

splashpot
10-11-2005, 02:29 AM
I hate playing crap hands like this. I'd just fold and work with my stack.

10-11-2005, 02:33 AM
I think you guys are giving up too much by folding this. The majority of the time, the SB doesn't have anything. A good-sized raise wins the pot.

EricW
10-11-2005, 02:37 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I think you guys are giving up too much by folding this. The majority of the time, the SB doesn't have anything. A good-sized raise wins the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know what play is like at the 33's as i multi-table the 22's but I'm assuming it's pretty simliar. *Most* of the time if the SB has nothing, he'll put out a min bet because the BB checked. I find it really hard to believe in this situation that SB has nothing when he makes a near pot sized bet into a flush draw flop. Although it's hard to put the SB on a hand here because the flop is full of rags.

jgunnip
10-11-2005, 02:39 AM
I agree with the fold. I want as many chips as possible while I'm picking on the small stacks on future hands.

splashpot
10-11-2005, 02:39 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Although it's hard to put the SB on a hand here because the flop is full of rags

[/ QUOTE ]
Rags or no rags, there are tons of people who will call the SB with any 2. It's impossible to put him on a hand.

ilya
10-11-2005, 02:45 AM
Without a read, the size of SB's bet makes me think that he is likely to have a better hand. Of course he may not, but since he's not deep enough for you to get away if you raise and he pushes, I would fold. For the same reason I think you should just push if you want to play.

Skip Brutale
10-11-2005, 03:48 AM
Id push ALL-IN!! You got top pair, dont be afraid!

10-11-2005, 11:23 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Id push ALL-IN!! You got top pair, dont be afraid!

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I did. He showed 88.

I like the reminder of reverse implied odds here. I also like the suggestion that the size of bet had to indicate he most likely has a better hand than me.

Nobody mentioned calling and reevatualting. Also might give me a chance of taking it down if he checks the turn on a scare card. Any thoughts on that?

Bigwig
10-12-2005, 02:43 AM
Nobody calls here and watches the action on the turn? I don't think people call enough bets around here.

SCfuji
10-12-2005, 02:52 AM
push preflop.

jedinite
10-12-2005, 03:13 AM
#1 - fold. why tangle with the second biggest stack with a very marginal holding, lets wait for a better opportunity to exploit the bubble against small / medium stacks.

Otherwise I can't see calling, you've gained zero information about the hand. And unless it gets checked down or you hit a miracle you're going to face a much harder decision on the turn with a more meaningful pot.

jedinite
10-12-2005, 03:21 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Raise it.... pot is 500--- make it 500 more.

[/ QUOTE ]
There's 575 in the pot. I really dislike raising 500-600 more - a 775 raise here commits a third of our stack against the second in chips with a marginal hand.

But I do like the 775 raise versus pushing here. I think most of the time against a standard $33 player leading in to a rag-draw board from the small blind after a completion indicates catching a hand range of middle pair, top pair, two overcards, or a strong draw. Its very rare to see a standard $33 player lead this flop OOP against the BB for a 2/3 pot - pot bet. Too many of these hands will call the push and you're facing a non-optimal situation based on current chipstack and potential draw/race situations.

If he calls you've built a very sizable pot and you're out of control re: pot odds unless you're willing to committ your stack with TPNK. If he calls the +500 you're up against a troublesome handrange including a flushdraw - what is your planned line if the turn drops a blank (non-flush, non-overcard)? What about if the turn drops the more likely flushcard or overcard?

If I don't fold this for some reason, I probably call and see what happens on the turn. In the (frequent) event that the SB was betting out with middle pair, overcards, or TPNK, this will often get checked down and you can even take it away from them sometimes if a scare card hits and you have a good read.

Absent reads this is most often a fold, based on stack sizes. I pick a better opportunity and better opponent.