Could he call this? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

10-10-2005, 08:41 PM

Not upset I lost the hand, such is poker. The final table overall was extremely loose aggressive, while I played very tight aggressive. I had the biggest stack until a runner-runner suck out brought me down to size, and I hadn't been bullying the short stacks. Basically, I had no table image that I was bullying or bluffing by pushing here. Villian was making questionable calls all night. Was he crazy, or is there a method to the madness on calling with a 92o here?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t3000 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t15786)
Button (t13106)
SB (t10944)
BB :#A500AF(Villian)/ (t27664)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero raises to t6000, 2 folds, BB :#A500AF(Villian)/ calls t3000.

Flop: (t9450) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Villian checks, Hero bets t9636 (All-In), Villian calls t9636.

Turn: (t28722) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t28722) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t28722

He won with two pair 9's and 2's, no diamonds. So basically he called with mid-pair and no flush draw. Am I justified into thinking he's a loon?

Matador225

10-10-2005, 08:47 PM

Yes, completely. Maybe he was convinced you were on the draw, but even then you are a favorite w/ a draw and overcards. Tough beat.

Superfluous Man

10-10-2005, 08:51 PM

He was getting sufficient odds to call your preflop minraise. Why are you not pushing preflop with 5x BB, anyway?

On the flop, it's a pretty bad call by him, but losing here only brings him down to 12k, so if you're betting something like unimproved AQ (no diamonds, of course) then he's ahead. It's certainly not a call I would make.

Otherwise this is just a bad beat post. You're going to get flamed for it. Enjoy!

cferejohn

10-10-2005, 08:59 PM

Well, you only min-raised and you left him with pretty decent odds to call preflop. With the stack size you have (~5x the BB), not pushing with a hand as good as KQ (and some hands that are quite a bit worse), is a pretty significant mistake.

10-10-2005, 09:09 PM

Well S-man, honestly its not intended as a bad beat post. As I said, I'm not upset I lost, just perplexed. But that's why I'm asking the question so I understand better. My own style of play, I would never had made that call...or probably played that hand, but maybe I'm way to conservative.
I did recognize the mistake in only the min raise. I kind of just hit the button instead of adjusting the amount, so I do understand that point.

JustPlayingSmart

10-10-2005, 10:31 PM

You really shouldn't be asking could he call this. Given this flop and your hands, you love a call here. He has 4 outs, and if he hits one of those on the turn, you have a big redraw.

All that said, with 5xBB, any hand you play should be all-in preflop.

Matador225

10-10-2005, 10:35 PM

Yea I definitely didn't notice that you only had 5 X BB. Its stupid for him to call but you allowed him to put a bad beat on you by not pushing.

10-11-2005, 01:31 AM

Honestly, that wouldn't have mattered. This guy was a calling station, and was making odd calls (at least in my mind) all night. I coulda pushed pre-flop, he still would have been in more than likely.

Curious though, push all in pre-flop no matter the hand at 5xbb? Do mean even 27o, or a more discerning hand like any suited connector...or perhaps just suited and/or connected? If you mean anything - that doesn't feel like poker to me at that point...more like roulette. Maybe I'm just way to conservative in end play. I make final table, and even in the money often in the cheaper SNG's, but admittedly I've never flat out won one. Heads up a few times, and generally top 5, but never #1.

runout_mick

10-11-2005, 06:03 AM

5xbb utg 4 handed?

You've got to push ANY hand better than Q7. If you pass here you MUST push your next hand with any 2 in the bb, or else you've reduced your chances of winning from slim to borderline none. You waited a little too long as it is. Before your last bb would have been ideal, as you still had some fold equity. Now you have nearly none and need to get lucky NOW.

runout_mick

10-11-2005, 06:05 AM

10-11-2005, 07:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Honestly, that wouldn't have mattered. This guy was a calling station, and was making odd calls (at least in my mind) all night. I coulda pushed pre-flop, he still would have been in more than likely.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly what you want. You want a player that will call off all of his chips when he has the worst hand. It just so happens that you got unlucky in the way the cards fell, but as far as play goes you got your chips in the middle with the best hand - and then the 2 fell to kick your butt. That's why this is a bad beat post - you played right and still lost because a fish sucked out. Happens to all of us.

As other posters said, push preflop with <10BB in the right situation. Cards aren't quite as important as the situation but it's nice to have something to fall back on if you're called. Pushing into the medium stacks that are looking to "stick it out" is usually best as they don't want to jeopardize their chips unnecessarily but you can't always pick who follows you. You'll win when the opposition folds AND you'll win when you draw out. It's also a great thing to win with an awful hand, push again with a great hand and get another call because they think you're pushing junk again.

illegit

10-11-2005, 08:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Curious though, push all in pre-flop no matter the hand at 5xbb? Do mean even 27o, or a more discerning hand like any suited connector...or perhaps just suited and/or connected? If you mean anything - that doesn't feel like poker to me at that point...more like roulette

[/ QUOTE ]
Wow. Buddy, this is a huge leak. If you're limping in or min-raising with 5 BB that's just awful. If you blay any hand, including a suited connector it should be a push at this point. You don't have the implied odds to play suited connectors as drawing hands and then fold if you miss a flop, and you don't have enough chips to only play premium hands. Your chief goal is to steal blinds by pushing, or get lucky and double up if called. You don't have enough chips to play post flop effectively. If it doesn't seem like 'real' poker to you then stick to cash games.