All my money in one fair sweep-

[slydeni]

Hello - this hand happened to me last night in a home game, and I could not sleep all night afterward - one of those egregious hands that makes you feel like the biggest idiot alive. Why do I ever even play this game kinda hands. I would appreciate ALL help and criticism I can get.

Here is the skinny on the game. Its a 1-2 NL game, where there is maybe one other guy who can play the game profitably over a long period. Its a loose game that gets looser as it gets later. Its now 3am and people are gambling. It is 6 handed at this point.

MP 1: limps for $2
MP 2: limps for $2
Hero on BTN: Raises to $10 with JJ.
BB: RE-Raises to $30.
everyone folds...except me on BTN...I Call.

***a note on BB::> he is a gambler type. Loves to play sports, cards, etc. He is not very poker savvy. He has lotsa money (owns a few pizza stores and such) and is not sweating a $1-$2 NL game. he plays Loose and aggressive and last hour or so has become considerably ballsy...and been throwing down some real aggressive bluffs - and succeeding. He is capapble of betting big with very close to nothing... at any time. everyone loves him in the game, cuz he will send it...and often times with not much of a hand.

BB Stack size:: about $400-$500
My stack size: about $300

The FLOP:: 2 6 9 rainbow

BB bets $50 or $60 i cant remember exactly.

Here is where my wires fried and I went crazy. I pushed ALL IN thinking he probably has AK or worse trying to bulldog me - as he has been doing last hour or so with others. I really did not think he had a good hand. But again, i did not think too long. I was a bit hasty.

He called ... i will tell you what had in a bit and how the hand turned out.

WHAT SHOULD MY THOUGHT PROCESS HAVE BEEN THROUGHOUT THIS HAND?

I really appreciate any help I can get on this.

thanx much
sly

[TomHimself]

i would call the flop and see wat he does on turn, but if he is a gambling type i wouldnt be surprised if ur ahead here so ur push is fine. he can have A9, 88, TT prolly jsut as much as QQ-AA

[Yarney]

I like the pre-flop call. The problem with the play on the flop is that its tricky. If you raise him, you are pretty much pot committing yourself. If you only raise 50, he will probably come back over the top if hes as aggressive as you say, which won't tell you anything about his hand. If you make a substantial raise of $100 then you are only left with $120 and you won't be able to get away from the hand. You should either call him here and bet if he checks the turn (unlikely I know) or raise $100 with the plan to move all-in if he pushes.

I imagine that you either lost the hand or sucked out on him, due to the nature of the post. Either that or he had jacks also...

-Yarney

[slydeni]

eh thanx guys for the input--

yah this hand went bad.

So he bets $50 on the flop to that ragged board. I am thinking he is bulldogging and I go all in...

He calls and flips KK, and my heart sinks to my chest. No Jack comes for the last hope suck out, and I get home at 4am...broke, and feelings hurt. The hand has replayed in my brain since.

I think I should have just called (obviously now..knowing the hand). In spite of the fact there was a good chance he was bluffing of semi-bluffing (on a draw, or even with AK or AQ) there was also a good chance he had qq, kk, aa..flopped a set...or the likely SLOPPY 2 pair like 9-6, which would be entirely ordinary for his style of play. I only had Jacks, and I dont think risking all my chips and going broke with them was the wisest move.

If I would have just called, another blank fell on the turn. And if he bet again...say $75-100 (or more) I probably would have to had let it go.

Incidentally, my friend books his sports bets...and he lost pretty close to 2 grand yesterday on football - $300 of it mine /images/graemlins/frown.gif(

thanks again for the thoughts
sly

[EStreet20]

Can I ask why you're complaining here?? I'm not trying to sound mean, are you saying you don't know why you play because you don't think you're good? From the beginning of this thread I thought you were doing a "whining about a loose home game" post. However all you posted is a hand in which you had the worst hand, and your opponent played his hand pretty well. If you can't stand to lose a whole buy in then you shouldn't play, especially not NL.

Once again, I didn't want to sound harsh but I think everyone will agree with my assessment of the way you played the hand.

Good luck,
Matt

[Jeebus]

the same basic thing happened to me today. I had QQ raised preflop got a couple callers bet the pot on the blank flop got minraised. i decided to be a dick and push and got called by KK.
My reaction was to go get a sandwich instead. Then i decided I should fold to that bet and am pretty sure that is right. Worrying about it that much won't help.

[slydeni]

Hi Matt-

Hmm... well I thank you for your thuoghts. If it appeared to you in my writing that I was attempting to be whiny...well...that was not my primary intention. And if I was, and it took away from the REAL QUESTION (which I put in bold at the bottom)-- WHAT SHOULD MY THOUGTH PROCESS HAVE BEEN AT FLOP? AND WAS MY ALL IN PLAY HORRIBLE OR NOT?

Again...I do appreciate your thoughts and I wil try and be more mindful of the whininess level in my writing. I apologize. That being said, I did not really understand what your assessment of the way I played my hand was. Could you explain your thoughts as to that?

thanks...genuinely
sly

[smoore]

I can't get away from this hand. I go broke here. No big deal... moron has a hand? I lose. I like your call preflop and your push postflop.

Calling there is the worst of your three options..... WORST.

Folding would be very difficult considering what he can play... he could be on A9 or even 69, who the hell knows. Against reasonable opposition I can assume I'm playing for a set and fold that flop but against a LAG? I go broke every time. Oh well, rebuy.

edit: 69 would be very bad for us.. say 9x

[smoore]

I agree Jeebus... I would have called his minraise and tried a little checkraise on the turn in your QQ vs. KK hand... minraises are f'in DANGEROUS on ragged flops in home games. I immediately assume suckerbet and go for the c/r on the turn to define my good but quite possibly second-best hand.

With our OP, this poor guy gets the nut mid pair against a guido who will bet/raise any two and gets stuck when the opponent turns up his KK.

"Jacks... can't win with 'em, can't beat 'em, can't fold 'em"

[slydeni]

smoore-- LMAO!
love the Jacks quote--- hope ya don't mind if I steal it /images/graemlins/smile.gif

And thanx for the hand analysis. I guess the all in move wasn't the worst thing in the world.

sly

[EStreet20]

Now I understand your post a little better, sorry about my somewhat harsh analysis before, I just couldn't figure out why you had the quote of "I don't know why I even play in this game," or whatever it was. I thought you were trying to say your opponent did something wrong here, which he clearly didn't.

As far as your play here, I have to admit that like the other posters in most cases I do go broke here in a cash game. There are some nights when I think a little deeper than others and might be able to get away from this hand, but against a loose opponent who's been bluffing a lot I'm probably trying to get my money in with an overpair as often as possible on such a flop. Just sucks that you got caught in the case where his previous wild play "roped you in". However, after such a hand in which you just got beat by the cards in you opponent's hand you shouldn't lose sleep. You made a read that may be right 9 times out of 10 against such an opponent, so why should you be upset afterwards? That's one point I was trying to make, if you lose sleep over losing a buy in then you're playing for more money than you can afford to lose which

A. Is a bad idea for a poker player, and can be davastating to a bankroll and to your overall poker strategy.

B. Could be the sign of a bigger problem.

C. Could just be a symptom of a lack of experience, as many of us had a tough time swallowing losses when we first started playing.

Either way I wish you the best of luck, you know what category you fall into and can make your next move depending on that.

Take care,
Matt

[slydeni]

hi matt-

yah i can see where it came across like that, but i'm glad we got on the same page. I took nothing away from my opponent who played his kings and his image very well this hand - i guess timing was just bad.

what really hurt, was that the buy-in was $100...it took about 5 hrs of play to build to $300. and i lost that to the guy...thats what hurt most.

i fall in to the beginners category. I was consistantly profitable last year at limit poker online and in casino, and am now transitioning to NL. I am finding it very different and challenging in many ways - as i am sure you are aware. And this situation confused me...i thought i made a horrendous play by going all in - maybe not.

so any suggestions you, or anyone, may have on how to make this a profitable transition would be great.

thanks for the thoughts Matt
sly

[27offsuit]

I think you mean 'fell swoop'


Only time you get called there is with a loser, too. Live & learn....

....a probing $75-$100 bet may have been better.

[theghost]

[ QUOTE ]
If you can't stand to lose a whole buy in then you shouldn't play, especially not NL.

[/ QUOTE ]

You lost - buy more chips.

[2+2 wannabe]

holy overplayed jacks batman!

[Toddy]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you mean 'fell swoop'


my sentiments exactly

[nuclear500]

When someone "not poker savvy" suddenly wakes up, thats an incredible tell.

[somapopper]

Donks get good hands too.

Just calling the flop is revisionist thinking, js are very vunerable against his range, you have to raise (unless you strongly believe he has a pocket pair or a set based on some info you left out), the size of the raise may be a little more debatable.

It sounds like you're playing over your head if the money hurt that much. Take some time and build a BR so you don't feel like [censored] every time you lose a couple buy ins.