Is this fair?

[WackityWhiz]

So I get back my first Western Civilation test today and I got a 60/100... I was hoping for a high C to a low B. The test is worth 25% of our grade and there are 2 more we have to take this semester.

This is where I have a problem... My teacher says that one of his students received a 6/100 on the test. He's like, "what are you going to do with 6% when it's worth 1/4th of your grade... so I give everyone who gets an F a 59%." This means that if I had wrote down the wrong answer to every question and wrote completley false information in the essay section I woulda gotten 1% lower.

I'll be glad to post my essay and my questions I answered so you can look at them. I really don't believe I deserved 1% higher than a person who got 6/100.

Thoughts?

If any of you are good at this stuff (early to 1700) I'd really appreciate it if you could evaluate what I wrote so I can get a better grade next time.

[The Dude]

If a professor want to give certain students extra points, at no harm to other students, I am all for that. I hate it when other students throw fits about extra points being given away, toting the 'unfair' flag.

If you have a problem with this professor, let it be with how he graded your paper, not with giving extra points to other students.

[WackityWhiz]

[ QUOTE ]
If a professor want to give certain students extra points, at no harm to other students, I am all for that. I hate it when other students throw fits about extra points being given away, toting the 'unfair' flag.

If you have a problem with this professor, let it be with how he graded your paper, not with giving extra points to other students.

[/ QUOTE ]

the problem I have is that I received 1% more than some jackass who gets nothing right. That is not fair.

[Deftoner]

[ QUOTE ]
That is not fair.

[/ QUOTE ]

neither is life. get used to it now.

[vulturesrow]

[ QUOTE ]

the problem I have is that I received 1% more than some jackass who gets nothing right. That is not fair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just a thought, but maybe you should try to figure out why you got a 60 instead of worrying about what is fair.

[MD2020]

You know, instead of wasting your time fighting this huge injustice, you could study for the next test.

[imported_anacardo]

That would be mercy. Mercy is by definition unfair, and is apportioned as the wronged party (your prof, for having to weed through this [censored]) sees fit. You have no beef.

[CardSharpCook]

agreed. Yes, it sucks that so many students received free points and you did not, but you cannot control that. You can control your performance and your grade. OTOH, I do think this is unfair. Your professor should either grade on a curve or throw out this test and give everyone a second shot (or that sillyness - You can take your grade on this test, or your make-up test...) The prof chose a very unfair way of doing this, but welcome to the world.

[Voltron87]

you have a legitimate complaint IMO.

[steelcmg]

I had a teacher who would not curve unless the class agreed to curve both ways if a bunch of people got good grades then he would curve down. So he never did curve and what u got is what u got.

I really dont like the idea of curves like this just because of this reason. It makes it so u dont have to study [censored] and still can get a better grade then someone who studies there ass off. That being said i hate tests and think they really need to have different ways of grading. I was a horrible test taker and didnt end up with good grades in some classes due to this. But yet everytime the teacher would ask a question in class i could figure it out. But yet i still got C's in the class so Fcuk school im glad im done with that crap.

[CardSharpCook]

Please, this is clearly a crime in a meritocracy as secondary education should be. Our hero has a right to be upset, some of the students in the class received a 1000% grade increase while he and other students who finished above the 60/100 line received bubkis. Our hero has been wronged, it is just a question of how he now responds.

[Bluffoon]

Your Teacher is doing a good job. You just learned a valuable lesson. Life's not Fair.

[imported_CaseClosed326]

I think your teacher has an aweful system. The more I think about it, the more this is such a stupid idea.

[Dominic]

next time, try studying more. 60 out of 100 is pathetic. In fact, anything under 70 should be failing.

And by the way, who said life is fair? Get used to it.

[Paluka]

The problem is that if he gives someone a 6, the person just has to give up. If he gets a 100 on his next exam, his avearge is still 53. Another 100 and his average is still only 69. If the teacher is interested in having the students who did very very badly still trying to pass the class, he has to make some sort of adjustment.

[TheBlueMonster]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If a professor want to give certain students extra points, at no harm to other students, I am all for that. I hate it when other students throw fits about extra points being given away, toting the 'unfair' flag.

If you have a problem with this professor, let it be with how he graded your paper, not with giving extra points to other students.

[/ QUOTE ]

the problem I have is that I received 1% more than some jackass who gets nothing right. That is not fair.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. But the best way to handle this is to talk to the prof. about your test not a policy that you find unfair.

[HopeydaFish]

It seems to me that you'd have had no beef had you studied harder and gotten a decent mark on the test. Next time, study harder and you won't end up feeling so off-put.

The only thing you might suggest to the teacher is that since people who failed the test were given grades that brought them up to the highest possible F, you should be give a grade that brings you up to the highest possible D-.

[phage]

[ QUOTE ]
Please, this is clearly a crime in a meritocracy as secondary education should be. Our hero has a right to be upset, some of the students in the class received a 1000% grade increase while he and other students who finished above the 60/100 line received bubkis. Our hero has been wronged, it is just a question of how he now responds.

[/ QUOTE ]
The situation is rather frustrating but I have to say that the amount of whining by students is getting out of hand. After exams there is a constant stream of students who are sure that they have been wronged. They feel that their answers were misunderstood or that they simply deserve a better grade. The fact of the matter is that fewer and fewer students can put together a coherent answer in the form of an essay. If students put more effort into studying this would not be as big a problem. That said, raising someone's grade from 6% to 59% is ridiculous.

[Evan]

[ QUOTE ]
If a professor want to give certain students extra points, at no harm to other students, I am all for that. I hate it when other students throw fits about extra points being given away, toting the 'unfair' flag.

If you have a problem with this professor, let it be with how he graded your paper, not with giving extra points to other students.

[/ QUOTE ]
As long as class grades aren't curved I agree with this.

[SL__72]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If a professor want to give certain students extra points, at no harm to other students, I am all for that. I hate it when other students throw fits about extra points being given away, toting the 'unfair' flag.

If you have a problem with this professor, let it be with how he graded your paper, not with giving extra points to other students.

[/ QUOTE ]
As long as class grades aren't curved I agree with this.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts exactly.

[codewarrior]

Grades should only be curved if no one passes.

That said, I sat some materials science exams where a 15% was a B+. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[RunDownHouse]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If a professor want to give certain students extra points, at no harm to other students, I am all for that. I hate it when other students throw fits about extra points being given away, toting the 'unfair' flag.

If you have a problem with this professor, let it be with how he graded your paper, not with giving extra points to other students.

[/ QUOTE ]
As long as class grades aren't curved I agree with this.

[/ QUOTE ]
In an environment where all the students are competing in terms of GPA, this seems pretty unfair to the OP.

[tolbiny]

Then that student got what the earned. If the teacher wants to offer an extra credit assignment to those who did performed under x% on their first test, so that they could earn a better grade, that would be something entirely different.

Of course this student has nothing to complain about, unless the grade in this particular class as compared to his peers will be used in determining something of value to him in the future (scholarships or a job).

[WackityWhiz]

Alright, here's my test. We get ~10 ID questions at the beginning of each class. I think we ended up with 75-80 overall and he listed 8 on the test. We had to answer 5 of them.

You have to explain what these things are, and this is what I wrote:

Cuneiform - Wedged shaped writing on clay tablets. Originated around 3500 BCE

Homer - Known for his epic tales. The most famous is the Odyssey. These tales were not originally written down, they were told and retold by different poets who embelished the tales. This caused the tales to lose all of their historical accuracy.

Zoroastrianism- Created by Zorast, it is a monotheistic religion that believed good behavior was ultimately rewarded in life.

Hatshepsut - Daughter of Thutmose I and relegated the throne of her brother, Thutmose II. She brought peace to the land. She was also portrayed as a man in sculptures.

Code of Hammurabi - Contained the laws of the land. A lot of the laws dealt with marriage, slavery, and most involved the idea of "an eye for an eye."

Essay: Discuss the Greek polis. How was the Greek concept of government radically different from all prior civilizations? Provide specific examples from readings and lecture. How did the concept of the polis and "civic duty" differ between Athens and Sparta.

The Greek polis was a self governing city state. They varied in size from a few square miles to hundreds of square miles. There were many poleis in Ancienct Greece. In the polis there was a defensive hilltop called an acropolis. Below the acropolis were the farmers and their crops.
The Greek polis contained an assembly, a counsil, temples, and an argon (this is the only flaw I see, this term is supposed to be Agore). The assembly consisted of young/middle aged men who handled business related activities. The counsil consisted of the town elders who passed their wisdom down to the polis' citizens. Elderly people were highly respected in Ancient Greece.
Temples were created to worship the gods to keep them happy. Citizens of the polis believed that there was a sepaerate god for every significant act.
The argon (oops) was located in the middle of the polis and was home to the town market and social gatherings.
The civic duties in Sparta and Athens were very different. In Sparta, all men were recruited to the military at a young age. They were raised to fight. Men also owned all the land. Women had no power in the government. The sparta military fought as Hoplites in tight, uniformed rows.
Athens was the first democracy in Ancient Greece. Solon grouped citizens of Athens into 4 groups based on their wealth. The first two groups were eligible to be archons. The next group was eligible to be boules. The last group was the poorest and were not allowed to be either.

I'll admit, I was vague in areas. However, I do not think this is a D- paper. If Thomas Callahan can write Herbie Hancock and get a D+, then I at least deserve a C!

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
next time, try studying more. 60 out of 100 is pathetic. In fact, anything under 70 should be failing.

And by the way, who said life is fair? Get used to it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, if the grade is important to you (which it certainly sounds like it is) suck it up and pwn that sh!t. Now, if you're striving to fail, then be mad that you didn't just answer 1 question, get a 59% and spend the rest of the test time doing something else (although something tells me the teacher wouldn't have graded you up to a 59% if this was the case).

Yugoslav

[RunDownHouse]

[ QUOTE ]
In an environment where all the students are competing in terms of GPA, this seems pretty unfair to the OP.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thinking about this some more, the OP's main problem is that he really has no justifiable argument for raising his grade. His only viable argument is in reversing the professor's stated policy and lowering the grades of other students. This will never happen.

Sorry bud.

[codewarrior]

It would require a minimum of study to Ace this test.

[Lazymeatball]

For a lot of courses I have taken the grade is composed of something like 4 tests and a homework grade, lets say there are all equal, however you are allowed to drop your lowest score. This way everyone gets a mulligan, the people who bombed the first test know they can still get an A if they work hard the rest of the semester, and the person who does well on all their tests and homework can blow off the final.

Your prof really should have thought about this situation before he handed out his first sylabus.

[threeonefour]

this is why non-math/science classes are scary. because it is very likely the professors don't understand math or statistic and as a result they often come up with insane grading policies. basically, the more complicated the curve or grading system, the more likely the liberal arts professor is going to be screwing some guy over.

[Duke]

[ QUOTE ]
next time, try studying more. 60 out of 100 is pathetic. In fact, anything under 70 should be failing.


[/ QUOTE ]

This really depends on the class, professor, and test in question.

~D

[CardSharpCook]

dude, you half-assed this test. Your short answer questions are too short. You omit dates in nearly every example. Your responses show you know a very little about each term. Your essay is incredibly short - I can't imagine turning in an essay this short on a test. The writing is detached and simplistic. There is no depth at all. You do show that you have memorized the material, but not that you've thought about it. Throw in comparisons to other forms of government. Give your thoughts as to why this was an effective/ineffective system. Show that you've thought about what you've learned. I would have a hard time giving this a C. However, I'd give you a 65.

[ QUOTE ]

I'll admit, I was vague in areas. However, I do not think this is a D- paper. If Thomas Callahan can write Herbie Hancock and get a D+, then I at least deserve a C!

[/ QUOTE ]

This is certainly worthy of a C grade for an eighth grade essay- you have a legitimate gripe.

[Duke]

[ QUOTE ]
dude, you half-assed this test. Your short answer questions are too short. You omit dates in nearly every example. Your responses show you know a very little about each term. Your essay is incredibly short - I can't imagine turning in an essay this short on a test. The writing is detached and simplistic. There is no depth at all. You do show that you have memorized the material, but not that you've thought about it. Throw in comparisons to other forms of government. Give your thoughts as to why this was an effective/ineffective system. Show that you've thought about what you've learned. I would have a hard time giving this a C. However, I'd give you a 65.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should probably have replied to the guy who took the test.

~D

[nothumb]

Yeah, you did terrible. Try harder next time. You mentioned in your essay that Athens was a democracy, but you didn't say anything about how this was different from, say, tribal government, pharoahs, kings, etc. On a test with so few questions you need to write a lot more. You deserved your low grade, don't try to drag others down with you.

NT

[Duke]

After seeing your test, all I can say is:

San Dimas High School Football RULES!

EDIT: I'd also like to know if you learned everything you know about this subject from playing Civilization III.

~D

[DcifrThs]

this is very sad.

an A on this type of test is the easiest thing in the world...id be worreid about your scholastic aptitude or study habits if you got a 60 on this test.

Barron

[[censored]]

which school?

At a community college that would probably be something like a solid C maybe more as you seem to have successfully memorized things and repeated them. However your answers did not demostrate any true understanding of the subject.

edit - I don't know much about the subject matter so if you are completely wrong or left essential information I wouldn't know.

I think the policy is fair, you need to spend more time worrying about how you do and not about how others did. I can't see how the policy is unfair to you, as unless there is sometype of end of term curve, the other studen's grades have no affect on you what so ever. you apparently earned a D and that is what you got.

[Duke]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, you did terrible. Try harder next time. You mentioned in your essay that Athens was a democracy, but you didn't say anything about how this was different from, say, tribal government, pharoahs, kings, etc. On a test with so few questions you need to write a lot more. You deserved your low grade, don't try to drag others down with you.

NT

[/ QUOTE ]

You're absolutely right, but it does show that he learned a whole lot more about the material than someone who got a 6 (which I assume is saying: "cuneiform == wedge writing or something").

~D

[nothumb]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, you did terrible. Try harder next time. You mentioned in your essay that Athens was a democracy, but you didn't say anything about how this was different from, say, tribal government, pharoahs, kings, etc. On a test with so few questions you need to write a lot more. You deserved your low grade, don't try to drag others down with you.

NT

[/ QUOTE ]

You're absolutely right, but it does show that he learned a whole lot more about the material than someone who got a 6 (which I assume is saying: "cuneiform == wedge writing or something").

~D

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course it's not mathematically fair in an absolute meritocracy. But the point is, who cares if you're competing for the best F in the class? The idea is to do well, not score better than a borderline retard. How would you even get a 6% on this test? I have little sympathy for people who are barely scraping by and want to screw over the pitiful idiots even worse off than they are.

Basically, this (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=exchange&Number=3633317&Fo rum=,All_Forums,&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main =3633008&Search=true&where=&Name=8377&daterange=&n ewerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev= #Post3633317)
summarizes my thoughts on the matter.

NT

[WackityWhiz]

Ya, looking back on it, it's a terrible essay. Sadly, this was my first essay test that I've ever taken. I now know what kind of answers it takes to get a decent grade. I'll have to own the next 2 tests to get the B that I want.

I do appreciate all the responses I got. This time I'll study what we go over after every class. I'm the type of person who waits til the last minute to study. I'll try to change this so I can do better next time.

I really do appreciate the responses, and you saved me the embarrassment of going to my teacher and complaining.

thanks

[samjjones]

Wow. I probably would have written about 80,000 more words in that essay. Way, way too short. You also need to demonstrate clear understanding in your short answers. At least a paragraph for each answer.

[RunDownHouse]

[ QUOTE ]
But the point is, who cares if you're competing for the best F in the class? The idea is to do well, not score better than a borderline retard.

NT

[/ QUOTE ]
The problem is that he IS competing, to some degree, and this should be taken into account by the professor. Let's take the most extreme example: our OP and Idiot both score 100 on the last 3 exams, but Idiot scores 0 on his first exam. In this case, OP's final grade is 90, while Idiot's final grade is a 75. Both have gotten exactly what they deserve based on performance, and this will be reflected in their GPAs. But change Idiot's first grade to a 59, and his final grade is practically the same as OP's. Those getting such adjustments are worsening OP's competitive position thanks to this handout. You can argue about how big this impact is, and whether that magnitude makes it something worth worrying about, but I don't see much of an argument against it being intrinsically "unfair," since people are not receiving what they've earned.

No, life isn't fair, and like I've said, the OP is screwed because his only hope rests on the argument that the policy should be reversed and other students' scores lowered, which will pretty much never happen. But academic settings often strive for fairness and equality beyond that which is to be expected in the "real world."

[Sponger15SB]

What school do you go to?

[Duke]

[ QUOTE ]
I really do appreciate the responses, and you saved me the embarrassment of going to my teacher and complaining.

[/ QUOTE ]

You might want to talk to the professor anyhow to get a sense of what he wants for answers on the tests. For all we know we're wrong and if you wrote "giggity" at the end you'd have gotten a 103.

~D

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

the problem I have is that I received 1% more than some jackass who gets nothing right. That is not fair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just a thought, but maybe you should try to figure out why you got a 60 instead of worrying about what is fair.

[/ QUOTE ]

[tonypaladino]

I don't like openly critisizing people's work, but I guess that's what you wanted to get by posting it here.

That is not a college level essay. (What college/year are you in btw?) Your essay is very vauge and is not written as well as it could be.

I would adise you to read Elements of Style and Keys For Writers. In addition, if your school has a writing center/comminications center type thing you should submit some of your old essays to them for critiquing.

[WackityWhiz]

Thanks, I really appreciate all the responses. I'll admit, I didn't study like I should've. I'm fairly confident that if I just apply myself more, I'll be able to get a B in this class.

Time to pwn the next test!!!