Oops. TT, hard decisions for novice [Archive]

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10-09-2005, 05:01 PM

Opponent seems TAG, and his name makes me think of 2+2. Even though he has a nice sized stack he hasn't been running the table over or anything, ~20/8. I'm down 1 buyin at this table. It wasn't lost in some retarded fashion that he would have seen, just from raising and having to get away from flops, slowly dwindled. I don't think we've actually played a pot together since I've sat down. I've been raising a decent amount and seeing a lot of flops, but missing on my good->premium hands. Been folding a lot after the flop. According to PT I had a VPIP of 27% over 124 hands, so my PFR was probably decently high too, ~12-15 or so. Anyone actually like the turn play? What about the river? Is $12 too small a raise PF? It's what I've normally been raising after 1 limper.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP ($162.12)
CO ($365.95)
Button ($496.10)
Hero ($202.60)
BB ($260.30)
UTG ($581.50)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif. Hero posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls $2, 3 folds, Hero (poster) raises to $11, 1 fold, UTG calls $10.

Flop: ($26) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $20, UTG calls $20.

Turn: ($66) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $45, Hero calls $45.

River: ($156) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $125

wdeadwyler

10-09-2005, 05:07 PM

Shoulda bet 80 on the river, and fold to a raise, as played call.

10-09-2005, 05:08 PM

I don't think I can fold to a raise with only ~$45 left.

10-09-2005, 05:22 PM

I figured I was way ahead or way behind on the turn. So I check/called. I felt the same way on the river, except I thought if I made a blocking bet or 1/2-2/3 of the pot he'll get away from small pairs I'm beating and obviously overcards and missed draws if any. I thought inducing a bluff + may be enticing value bet out of a smaller pair was the way to go on the river. Does any of this make sense? Is my thinking off? Is the river a call or fold?

10-09-2005, 06:54 PM

I'd call personally. I think I'd put him on a 9 or a bluff, I really don't read him as having a 5 and I honestly don't think the Q hit him.

Godfather80

10-09-2005, 07:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Opponent seems TAG, and his name makes me think of 2+2. Even though he has a nice sized stack he hasn't been running the table over or anything, ~20/8. I'm down 1 buyin at this table. It wasn't lost in some retarded fashion that he would have seen, just from raising and having to get away from flops, slowly dwindled. I don't think we've actually played a pot together since I've sat down. I've been raising a decent amount and seeing a lot of flops, but missing on my good->premium hands. Been folding a lot after the flop. According to PT I had a VPIP of 27% over 124 hands, so my PFR was probably decently high too, ~12-15 or so. Anyone actually like the turn play? What about the river? Is $12 too small a raise PF? It's what I've normally been raising after 1 limper.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP ($162.12)
CO ($365.95)
Button ($496.10)
Hero ($202.60)
BB ($260.30)
UTG ($581.50)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif. Hero posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls $2, 3 folds, Hero (poster) raises to $11, 1 fold, UTG calls $10.

Flop: ($26) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $20, UTG calls $20.

Turn: ($66) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $45, Hero calls $45.

River: ($156) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $125

[/ QUOTE ]

If I were villain, I'd think you had A/images/graemlins/diamond.gifK/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. But, in that case, what do I hold that bets 3/4 of the pot on the end? How agressive is villain post flop? To me, this comes down to a read, but I'm probably calling.

swolfe

10-09-2005, 07:12 PM

bet the turn, fold to a raise. if called, check/fold the river unless you spike a T.

10-09-2005, 08:01 PM

Is the turn check bad? Are these hands as simple as bet/bet and fold to any resistance?

RiverFenix

10-09-2005, 08:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is the turn check bad? Are these hands as simple as bet/bet and fold to any resistance?

[/ QUOTE ]

The merits of firing a 2nd shot on the turn helps you define your hand better to the villian since this is where AK usually checks and overpairs continue to bet. The problems with that in this situation is how do you react to resistance with not a lot more behind and probably the best hand.

Id think that youre ahead here and call. I would have blocked the river if I checked the turn (but I would have bet it for 2/3pot).

10-09-2005, 08:58 PM

Definitely makes sense. I was trying to "represent" AK or something that missed with the turn check and milk him for some money. I figured might as well try and do it on the river as well since nothing else changed much. I was afraid a blocking bet would fold a lot of hands I want to call or want him to bluff with.

I was planning on calling 1/2 of a pot bet on the river instantly, but then he put me all in and confused me a little. I figure I must look like a semi-LAG and he wouldn't bluff that much on the river since I'd be calling a lot due to my stats, and then I thought what type of hands is he limping UTG and then calling a decent raise with, and a pot sized bet on the flop. Also, if he puts me on AK why would he bet that much on the river? I actually folded and he showed 2c4c for the missed straight draw and successful bluff. Even though this hand cost me a lot, I think I learned a lot from you guys. I still like my line though, which may not be good. Normally I'd do just what most of you say, bet flop, bet turn, figure out what to do if he raises. I've been folding so often postflop though at this table I figure I might as well make it look like I'm going to do it again. In reality my play accomplished exactly what I wanted, but I didn't have the balls to call. I think I'll save the "thinking", god forbid, for if/when I ever get to 600 NL or higher. For now it's ABC poker.

amoeba

10-10-2005, 02:56 AM

this wasn't me was it?

10-10-2005, 03:00 AM

I dunno, are you fond of scat?

amoeba

10-10-2005, 03:02 AM

no. my mistake.

10-10-2005, 03:37 AM

I think I call this, too many donks who bluff the turn end up bluffing their whole stack on the river. Just bet the turn next time. TT doesnt have the luxury of getting very fancy since there are so many overcards that can come and put you to a tough decision.

HarryW

10-10-2005, 03:47 AM

pf raise is fine sized. Flop bet is fine. Turn check is confusing. We should bet $30-$45 then fold if raised. Only hand that this turn check/call makes sense against is A9. River comes a scare card and he still bets. We can rule out A9 which means we now beat only a bluff. Better not call. Looks like you probably saw 56s, 54s, 33 or 99.