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TemetNosce
10-09-2005, 01:48 PM
Paradise 2/4 (10 Handed)

Reads: UTG is a tight, thinking player, Button and SB will play any Ace, paint cards or pocket pair.

Preflop : Hero is UTG+1 with A /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
UTG raises, Hero reraises, 5 folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls

Flop (13 SB): 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, Button folds, SB folds, UTG calls

Turn (8.5 BB):T /images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero ???

Two questions:

1. With UTG not capping preflop, I feel confident that I am not looking at AA/KK here. My thinking here with raising with my two overcards is that I would like to chase out the Button and SB if they have pocket pairs and not give them the chance to nail a set on the turn (or river). I'd also like to drive out the A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif if possible if someone holds it but it isn't a suited Ace. Is this correct or am I spewing?

2. If I raise the turn against this thinking player, am I spewing or is there enough of a chance he can laydown a hand like QQ/JJ?

Lunar Tweak
10-09-2005, 05:26 PM
flop raise is OK, pot has become quite large, and luckly it got you heads up.

when UTG fires the turn, i don't see him laying down JJ or QQ, and maybe trying to 3 bet you w/ TT. but you have to call getting 8.5 to 1 to spike an A or K.

hope this helps.

cold_cash
10-09-2005, 05:38 PM
What hands can the button have?

Once you decide that it should be simple math.

Walker
10-09-2005, 07:51 PM
Disclaimer: I may be completely wrong

When UTG bets the flop, I think he has a pp (88-JJ)=20ways or two big suited diamonds (AdTd,AdJd,AdQd)=3ways. Most of the time I think we are behind. While we would like to fold out hands like JT,QT that have 6 live outs against us, we might also fold dominated Aces, and kings, and pp's which we really want to stick around and pad the pot for us while we're drawing. Raising is expensive, and we're likely not getting a free card so I just call.

*Note
If UTG the very aggressive type that would bet out here without a pair or AK (AK is unlikely), you should raise the flop for value and to make those behind you pay to draw. If they might fold a pp, then all the better. With this line (as you played it) I think I would just call the turn and fold the river UI.

If UTG might fire again with his overcards or flush draw, raising (with the intention of folding to a three bet(assuming he wouldn't three bet 88-JJ here) and then taking a free showdown UI would be sexy as hell and definitely worth considering.

Note: I've been playing mostly live lately, and I've never player paradise 2/4.

cold_cash
10-09-2005, 08:00 PM
[ QUOTE ]
What hands can the button have?

Once you decide that it should be simple math.

[/ QUOTE ]

I mean UTG. I think it's a call on the turn, but it's close.

me454555
10-09-2005, 08:02 PM
Flop raise is spewing. You made the correct read on UTG as he likley has a PP that isn't AA or KK. The reason I dislike this raise so much is that you are behind and not buying any outs w/button or bb folding. Lets say they have a hand like QJ or T9 that has 6 outs against you. It doesn't make much of a difference if they fold b/c 1) You're not ahead and still have to hit your hand to win it and 2) Your outs will not make anyone else a better hand.

Given the reads that you are describing, their most likely hands are Ax, PPs, KQ, QJ, KJ, JTs maybe. If thats the range of hands they have, I think you'd rather have them stick around and pad the pot in case you hit your ace or king. They worst case scenerio is that they have a redraw gutshot against you and thats not so bad b/c you might be able to make them pay 2bb's for it.

TemetNosce
10-10-2005, 08:20 AM
Thanks for the comments.

After I played the hand and thought about it, I felt the flop raise was incorrect for the reasons you stated, especially the leaving worse unpaired hands in to pad the pot in case I spiked an Ace or a King.