Your benchmark rap album?

[TheBlueMonster]

What would you say is THE rap album that all albums you listen to must be compared to. IMO it would be "Illmatic" by Nas.

"It drops deep as it does in my breath
I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
Beyond the walls of intelligence, life is defined
I think of crime when I'm in a New York state of mind"

[nyc999]

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IMO it would be "Illmatic" by Nas.

[/ QUOTE ]

[IronDragon1]

"Enter the 36 Chambers"-Wu-Tang Clan

Dr. Dre "The Chronic"

[diebitter]

Licensed to Ill - Beastie Boys

but it is, in fact, the only rap album I don't detest instantly...

[Vince Young]

Eminem - The Slim Shady LP

[HtotheNootch]

[ QUOTE ]
Paul's Boutique - Beastie Boys


[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[TheBlueMonster]

[ QUOTE ]
"Enter the 36 Chambers"-Wu-Tang Clan

[/ QUOTE ]
#2 on my list

[TheBlueMonster]

[ QUOTE ]
Dr. Dre "The Chronic"

[/ QUOTE ]
#3 on my list....

"Reasonable Doubt" by Jay-Z.

[TheBlueMonster]

[ QUOTE ]
"Reasonable Doubt" by Jay-Z.

[/ QUOTE ]
One of my personal favs. Probably #4 or #5 on my list.

[diebitter]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Paul's Boutique - Beastie Boys


[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, what do I know, I'm English and white... - I still think Rapper's Delight and The Message haven't been bettered, and 'White Lines' and 'Planet Rock' kick ass.

[tdarko]

illmatic is on the list. so is...

ready to die-biggie

[Soul Daddy]

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000024K1.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

I think "College Dropout" by Kanye also deserves a mention. He's really changed the rap game and "Dropout" was such an innovative album.

A Tribe Called Quest "The Low End Theory"

[tdarko]

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I think "College Dropout" by Kanye also deserves a mention. He's really changed the rap game and "Dropout" was such an innovative album

[/ QUOTE ]
changed what? he is just doing what puff was doing 6 years ago. smart, yes. game changing, no.

[imported_anacardo]

This begins and ends with Public Enemy's "Nation of Millions" and NWA's "Straight Outta Compton."

[tdarko]

i was going to say "the love movement" but didn't in fear of TSC coming into the thread and calling me gay /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Vince Young]

[ QUOTE ]
I think "College Dropout" by Kanye also deserves a mention. He's really changed the rap game and "Dropout" was such an innovative album.

[/ QUOTE ]
How is rap at all different now than it was before College Dropout came out?

[fluxrad]

http://www.artistdirect.com/Images/Sources/AMGCOVERS/music/cover200/drd800/d833/d83385p05vb.jpg

[TomHimself]

the dynasty-jay-z

[Claunchy]

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/9715/shaq0wy.jpg

[STLantny]

Most influential [censored] when I was growing up
1. Ghetto Boyz
2. Eazy e
3. Beastie boys
4. Dr. Dre (spec., the chronic)

[wdcbooks]

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http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000024K1.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the right answer although I would also have accepted "Fear of a Black Planet".

[MikeNaked]

Black Star - Mos Def and Talib Kweli are...

http://images.windowsmedia.com/img/prov_u/300_80/00008811289720_800x800.jpg

[uw_madtown]

[ QUOTE ]
This begins and ends with ... NWA's "Straight Outta Compton."

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[nothumb]

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i was going to say "the love movement" but didn't in fear of TSC coming into the thread and calling me gay /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Not gay, just wasn't one of the better Tribe albums in most peoples' opinions.

Basically, I agree with the basics here - particularly the triumvirate of East Coast classics that most kids my age were introduced to hip hop by: Ready to Die, Illmatic, and 36 Chambers.

A few that haven't been mentioned, but that I also think are critical:

DJ Shadow: Endtroducing

Pretty much the only instrumental hip hop record that matters, in the scope of things.

Outkast: ATLiens

It's hard to pick an Outkast album but this one is it for 'benchmark,' if only because it's the first one I heard. You can't have a benchmark list without Outkast; what they've done is just crazy.

Mobb Deep: The Infamous

For dirty, dark NY hip-hop, this is right up there with the other early 90's classics. Mobb Deep never blew like the others but they were just as raw and had skills nonetheless. Their biggest flaw was not making the classic, complete albums like Nas or Big, but they could kill a track at any time. Mobb Deep signing to G Unit was one of the worst disappointments for me in rap music, ever.

There are others, enough for now.

NT

[TheBlueMonster]

[ QUOTE ]
the dynasty-jay-z

[/ QUOTE ]
mm, I'm still gonna have to go with Reasonable Doubt or The Blueprint

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
i was going to say "the love movement" but didn't in fear of TSC coming into the thread and calling me gay /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]wtf? That cd is aight. but IMO, just buy their greatest hits CD.


as for the benchmark, it has to be The Chronic.

[MrTrik]

[ QUOTE ]
Dr. Dre "The Chronic"

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not a huge rap fan. But I have some of it as I do for most other genres.

It was "The Chronic" that introduced me to the concept of rap being something I should pay attention to. I expanded after that and own something close to 50 discs now.

[uw_madtown]

[ QUOTE ]
DJ Shadow: Endtroducing

Pretty much the only instrumental hip hop record that matters, in the scope of things.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, great pick.

Top 3 IMO would probably be Straight Outta Compton, The Low End Theory, and Endtroducing... simply because they're benchmarks for 3 brands of rap.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
Top 3 IMO would probably be Straight Outta Compton, The Low End Theory, and Endtroducing... simply because they're benchmarks for 3 brands of rap.

[/ QUOTE ] here is why I take The Chronic over Straight Outta Compton. The Chronic was a polished version of Straight Outta Compton. One was like a rough diamond, and the other, a freshly cut and polished diamond. The Chronic made everyone know that you had to come out with CD's that sounded finished and not just simply 13 songs on a CD.

[uw_madtown]

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Top 3 IMO would probably be Straight Outta Compton, The Low End Theory, and Endtroducing... simply because they're benchmarks for 3 brands of rap.

[/ QUOTE ] here is why I take The Chronic over Straight Outta Compton. The Chronic was a polished version of Straight Outta Compton. One was like a rough diamond, and the other, a freshly cut and polished diamond. The Chronic made everyone know that you had to come out with CD's that sounded finished and not just simply 13 songs on a CD.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, I had a hard time deciding whether the "gangsta rap" entry should be SOC or The Chronic, for the very reasons you mentioned. But SOC is widely recognized for popularizing (if not originating) gangsta rap. I guess that would make it more influential than it is a "benchmark."

[thatpfunk]

ready to die

[WackityWhiz]

ICP - Jeckel Brothers

and it's not close

[dizong]

"Nation of Million..." & "Fear of a Black Planet" - PE
"Raising Hell" - Run DMC
"Straight Outta Compton" - NWA
"Eazy Duz It" - Eazy E

All standard answers but that's expected when you grow up in the golden age of rap (mid-late 80s, early 90s)

dizong

[siccjay]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think "College Dropout" by Kanye also deserves a mention. He's really changed the rap game and "Dropout" was such an innovative album

[/ QUOTE ]
changed what? he is just doing what puff was doing 6 years ago. smart, yes. game changing, no.

[/ QUOTE ]

While he is pretty different than Puffy content wise, you are still right.

[siccjay]

I'm gonna have to go with "The Chronic" as well. Its one of the few albums I can put in today and it not feel dated.

Outkast "Southernplayalistic" is up there as well.

[Dominic]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b122/DomDab/bob.jpg

[Swax]

[ QUOTE ]
ICP - Jeckel Brothers

and it's not close

[/ QUOTE ]

HAHAHA - I needed a laugh. thanks man.

anyway - I'm guessing a lot of you are younger than me...no Paid in Full or Criminal Minded? No Kool G Rap (of whom Nas is a direct decendant)?

Illmatic is pretty damn good, no doubt about that...that's definitely a valid choice. memory lane is probably in my top ten songs ever, in all genres of music.

Straight Outta Compton is far better than the Chronic, IMO - plus the Chronic was responsible for the decline of inspriation in hip-hop pretty much (it is still a very good record though, even if it spawned a complete era of copycats).

Entroducing and Paul's Boutique (and Prefuse 73's first one) are both timeless, great albums as far as MUSICAL innovation outside of the realm of hip-hop, but I would consider them a sort of seperate genre (unless you're nominating Paul's Boutique for the rapping - then...well...I don't know what to say).

Benchmark album though - for ME, I would have to say De La Soul is Dead. To me it had everything. It built on the innovations in sampling that were present in 3 Feet High and Rising (people give the Low End Theory more credit for this, and I don't understand why - I love Low End Theory, but if you listen to most of the records that Low End Theory's beats were taken off of, the samples are pretty much just looped). It pretty much perfected the art of the "skit" on hip-hop albums, but actually kept them listenable. It also tackled a pretty complex theme (the notion of fleeting fame and celebrity and how it pigeonholes you) in an abstract way and had an "everyman" vibe that influenced a lot of the underground movement out today. There were just so many layers and inside jokes on it too. I just felt like I learned more about it every time that I listened to it.

Road to the Riches by Kool G Rap is another one that i never get sick of.

[TheBlueMonster]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ICP - Jeckel Brothers

and it's not close

[/ QUOTE ]

HAHAHA - I needed a laugh. thanks man.

anyway - I'm guessing a lot of you are younger than me...no Paid in Full or Criminal Minded? No Kool G Rap (of whom Nas is a direct decendant)?

Illmatic is pretty damn good, no doubt about that...that's definitely a valid choice. memory lane is probably in my top ten songs ever, in all genres of music.

Straight Outta Compton is far better than the Chronic, IMO - plus the Chronic was responsible for the decline of inspriation in hip-hop pretty much (it is still a very good record though, even if it spawned a complete era of copycats).

Entroducing and Paul's Boutique (and Prefuse 73's first one) are both timeless, great albums as far as MUSICAL innovation outside of the realm of hip-hop, but I would consider them a sort of seperate genre (unless you're nominating Paul's Boutique for the rapping - then...well...I don't know what to say).

Benchmark album though - for ME, I would have to say De La Soul is Dead. To me it had everything. It built on the innovations in sampling that were present in 3 Feet High and Rising (people give the Low End Theory more credit for this, and I don't understand why - I love Low End Theory, but if you listen to most of the records that Low End Theory's beats were taken off of, the samples are pretty much just looped). It pretty much perfected the art of the "skit" on hip-hop albums, but actually kept them listenable. It also tackled a pretty complex theme (the notion of fleeting fame and celebrity and how it pigeonholes you) in an abstract way and had an "everyman" vibe that influenced a lot of the underground movement out today. There were just so many layers and inside jokes on it too. I just felt like I learned more about it every time that I listened to it.

Road to the Riches by Kool G Rap is another one that i never get sick of.

[/ QUOTE ]
oooh, I forgot about Rakim. Paid in Full is amazing. I do like De la Soul, but I've never actually considered it.

[imported_anacardo]

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Straight Outta Compton is far better than the Chronic, IMO - plus the Chronic was responsible for the decline of inspriation in hip-hop pretty much (it is still a very good record though, even if it spawned a complete era of copycats).

[/ QUOTE ]

Surely you can't keep points from Dre or the album for that.

[TheBlueMonster]

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Straight Outta Compton is far better than the Chronic, IMO - plus the Chronic was responsible for the decline of inspriation in hip-hop pretty much (it is still a very good record though, even if it spawned a complete era of copycats).

[/ QUOTE ]

Surely you can't keep points from Dre or the album for that.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yea, I think that spawning copycats is one indication of a great album.

definitely No Way Out by Puffy

[BWebb]

[ QUOTE ]
Outkast: ATLiens

It's hard to pick an Outkast album but this one is it for 'benchmark,' if only because it's the first one I heard. You can't have a benchmark list without Outkast; what they've done is just crazy.



[/ QUOTE ]

It is very tough to pick an OutKast album, but I'd probably go with Aqemini over ATLiens, but just barely.

[Aytumious]

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http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000024K1.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

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This is the right answer although I would also have accepted "Fear of a Black Planet".

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[Swax]

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[ QUOTE ]
Straight Outta Compton is far better than the Chronic, IMO - plus the Chronic was responsible for the decline of inspriation in hip-hop pretty much (it is still a very good record though, even if it spawned a complete era of copycats).

[/ QUOTE ]

Surely you can't keep points from Dre or the album for that.

[/ QUOTE ]

good call - you're right...in all honesty, SOC did the same thing.

I'll break down those two and why I think that they're both a tad overrated (but still quite good) tomorrow.

[samjjones]

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NWA's "Straight Outta Compton."

[/ QUOTE ]

[dcasper70]

Rap Sucks
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/dcasper70/liveafterdeath.jpg

[siccjay]

Go bang your head some other place. You are not welcome in this thread.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/jaydeuce/buttout.jpg

[dcasper70]

vnh

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[MCS]

Illmatic is my favorite.

But I don't use it as a benchmark because I don't think music works that way. Illmatic is the pinnacle of NYC storytelling rap, but it's not the pinnacle of any type of rap except that one. So I have a hard time making direct comparisons.

I could rate all my albums and compare scores, but that's not the same.

[-Skeme-]

http://imusic.sina.com.cn/ssdy/album_bigpunisher_1.jpg

[BDarch]

dre's chronic 2001

[JihadOnTheRiver]

I can only imagine this was sarcasm. The album was mediocre at best, but had a couple decent songs on there.

[Swax]

[ QUOTE ]
Illmatic is my favorite.

But I don't use it as a benchmark because I don't think music works that way. Illmatic is the pinnacle of NYC storytelling rap, but it's not the pinnacle of any type of rap except that one. So I have a hard time making direct comparisons.

I could rate all my albums and compare scores, but that's not the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow - a lot of Illmatic votes on here. It's fantastic, no doubt about that - but I do have some nitpicking comments about it:

It's really short - like almost EP length. Not only that, if you consider that there's an intro, and considering "Halftime" kicks ass but was released as a single two years before the album came out (and is a battle rhyme, granted, a great battle rhyme, but it doesn't really fit on here - you can tell it's older than everything else), you're looking at only eight songs. Of those eight, five are absolutely phenomenal, but I'd say that there's two throwaway cuts ("represent" and "one time 4 your mind" - I mean even the titles to these two were already hip-hop cliche by the time this dropped). Then you have Life's a Bitch, which takes some of the album's best rhymes, and inexplicably wastes them on top of LES' corny, fluff-pop, "just take the vocals out of a 70's soul song, loop and call it your 'production'" type beat. Who thought it was a good idea to let LES get a beat on an album produced by Premier, Pete Rock, Extra P and Q-Tip!??! Those beats are fine for Will Smith, but come on.

So you're left with five songs - NY State of Mind, World is Yours, One Love, Memory Lane (far and away the best IMO), and Ain't Hard to Tell. Even though these 5 are probably as strong as 5 songs I can name by any other hip-hop artist, it's still only 5 songs, and I don't know that 5 songs can make a benchmark album for me.

Like I said, I'm nitpicking - I'm defintely not disagreeing. Just wanted to drop my .02. I mean seriously, are you guys really not skipping over "one timem 4 your mind" and "represent" - lol...

[-Skeme-]

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I can only imagine this was sarcasm. The album was mediocre at best, but had a couple decent songs on there.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know very little about rap.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can only imagine this was sarcasm. The album was mediocre at best, but had a couple decent songs on there.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know very little about rap.

[/ QUOTE ]Hey -Skeme-, what is your reasons for listing this CD? Just curious, because it is a pretty dope CD.

[-Skeme-]

Yes, it's very "dope" indeed, ThaSaltCracka. I need to go to sleep, though. I was called into work the graveyard shift tonight. If I remember, I'll list why I like the CD so much tomorrow or something. Pz.