View Full Version : Simple NL situation - what's the ruling?
Al_Capone_Junior
10-09-2005, 01:00 PM
Just for the record, this is a loaded question.
1-2 no limit.
Player one raises to $8.
Player two reraises to $40.
Player three calls $40.
Player four reraises to $80.
Player one folds.
Player two goes all-in for $100.
What are player three's options?
what if player two only went all-in for $85?
Remember, loaded question! Player three!
al
PLOlover
10-09-2005, 01:22 PM
if 85 then the raiser can only call 5 dollars. But player three?
If 100 then raiser still can only call since 1/2 or more is limit rule, right? Or can he raise here?
I think player three, the caller, can raise if he wants to on either, but I'm not sure.
Huskiez
10-09-2005, 01:32 PM
Player three can do whatever he wants: fold, call, or raise.
Player four reopened the action for him by reraising to $80.
Player 3 can call player 1's all in ($60 more) or fold. He can't raise because the $100 all-in is a $20 reraise - less than the minimum bet at this point of $40.
If it were an $85 all in his options would be calling $45 or folding.
But I'm sure I missed the loaded part of this question. Does Play 3 only have $45 more to start with?
bugstud
10-09-2005, 03:02 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Player three can do whatever he wants: fold, call, or raise.
Player four reopened the action for him by reraising to $80.
[/ QUOTE ]
Randy_Refeld
10-09-2005, 03:34 PM
Player 3 can do whatever he wants, player 4's raise opened that action to the field. Player 2 did not raise so player 4 can only call when the action comes back to him (assuming player 3 only calls).
edit to add: Most places to raise player 3 must make it at least $140 to go. Some places he must mamke it $200 to go. The first rule is the more common rule, but the second rule is what some old timers told em is better and after hearing their reasoning, I am inclined to agree.
Player 3 is free to reraise a sum to his liking.
[ QUOTE ]
edit to add: Most places to raise player 3 must make it at least $140 to go. Some places he must mamke it $200 to go. The first rule is the more common rule, but the second rule is what some old timers told em is better and after hearing their reasoning, I am inclined to agree.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why would he ever have to raise to $200? I could understand some dispute as to whether Player three's minimum raise would be to $140 or $160 (I am inclined in this situation to say $160 but neither ruling would particularly offend me).
Randy_Refeld
10-09-2005, 05:26 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
edit to add: Most places to raise player 3 must make it at least $140 to go. Some places he must mamke it $200 to go. The first rule is the more common rule, but the second rule is what some old timers told em is better and after hearing their reasoning, I am inclined to agree.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why would he ever have to raise to $200? I could understand some dispute as to whether Player three's minimum raise would be to $140 or $160 (I am inclined in this situation to say $160 but neither ruling would particularly offend me).
[/ QUOTE ]
One version of NL rules requires that the raise be at least the size of of total previous bet. The reasoning is to prevent collusion. Think of a situation with 3 players and 2 of them working togoether. They could make a series of minimum raises to go after the third players stack without the third player ever understanding the true nature of their actions.
I understand why $160 (double the $80) or $200 (double the 100), but could someone tell me why $140?
Thanks,
Will
[ QUOTE ]
One version of NL rules requires that the raise be at least the size of of total previous bet.
[/ QUOTE ]
Is there any casino that uses this rule? I have never seen it. Every place I have played has used the size of the previous raise.
Huskiez
10-09-2005, 05:40 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I understand why $160 (double the $80) or $200 (double the 100), but could someone tell me why $140?
Thanks,
Will
[/ QUOTE ]
Player four raised $40 on top. The minimum reraise is sometimes considered the last reraise (not including the all in in this case).
So because Player two is all in for $100, Player four must make it at least $100 + $40 = $140.
This is my understanding, at least.
Randy_Refeld
10-09-2005, 05:48 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One version of NL rules requires that the raise be at least the size of of total previous bet.
[/ QUOTE ]
Is there any casino that uses this rule? I have never seen it. Every place I have played has used the size of the previous raise.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have not been there to confirm, but I believe Hawaiian Gardens uses that rule. It has fallen out of favor, but people that I respect in this industry have told me it is the prefered rule.
Ulysses
10-09-2005, 06:48 PM
Player 3 can obviously do whatever the f he wants to do.
IceKing
10-11-2005, 10:48 PM
This seems pretty simple. I cant see anything "loaded" here. In both cases player three can fold, call or raise. If the all-in is 100 then raise is to 140, if 85 then atleast to 125.
NateDog
10-11-2005, 11:51 PM
Kick him in the nuts.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One version of NL rules requires that the raise be at least the size of of total previous bet.
[/ QUOTE ]
Is there any casino that uses this rule? I have never seen it. Every place I have played has used the size of the previous raise.
[/ QUOTE ]
Harrah's in Kansas City uses this rule (unless it has changed recently).
IceKing
10-12-2005, 12:34 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Kick him in the nuts.
[/ QUOTE ]
Kick me? Or kick Al? /images/graemlins/confused.gif
Lawrence Ng
10-12-2005, 02:07 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Player 3 can obviously do whatever the f he wants to do.
[/ QUOTE ]
Depending on the casino and their rules, Player 3 and 4 may only just call and not re-raise since the last raise was less than half the amount of the previous re-raise before.
In some casinos you can do what the f' you want.
And yes, I say kick Al in the balls. /images/graemlins/grin.gif
Lawrence
Ulysses
10-12-2005, 02:24 AM
OK. If the casino's rules say that an all-in raiser automatically wins the pot and everyone else has to fold, then Player 3 has to fold.
Al_Capone_Junior
10-12-2005, 12:18 PM
[ QUOTE ]
1-2 no limit.
Player one raises to $8.
Player two reraises to $40.
Player three calls $40.
Player four reraises to $80.
Player one folds.
Player two goes all-in for $100.
What are player three's options?
[/ QUOTE ]
The answer!
It's almost a trick question here, because the answer is obvious.
Player three can reraise whatever he wants. He previously called $30, then was raised the full amount. This re-opens the entire field for raising again. Player one just makes it APPEAR complicated because he was around half the bet more than player four, but that doesn't matter. Player three is facing a full raise, therefore he can reraise if he wishes. The exact minimum amount he must reraise may vary by house rules.
[ QUOTE ]
what if player two only went all-in for $85?
[/ QUOTE ]
Irrelevant to what player three can do, except for perhaps the exact amount of a minimum reraise, according to house rules.
al
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