View Full Version : Empire WILL respond
Hello All,
I have never once posted at 2+2, but I visit the site every single day and am well aware of all the issues in the poker world. Many of you know me but since we can't discuss that in this forum, I won't elaborate. I just had a long discussion with a major player within Empire Poker's organization. You can be assured of this: They will RESPOND aggressively PP's action. They are a multi BILLION dollar corporation and won't just sit back and watch their players leave for PP.
Furthermore, don't be surprised at all in the very immediate future to see EP merge with another network to quickly increase traffic and add to the fish pool. You will also see HUGE incentives with bonuses, increased RB, and other perks to stay at EP. I have faith that they will respond aggressively and maintain a decent network.
Yes, I would have loved to see things stay the same. That was the comfortable thing for all of us, but I'm starting to be encouraged that there can be life without PP. The short term, no doubt, will be rough but give EP (and the other skins for that matter) time to respond to this.
The one thing that the skins have on their side is that most of us HATE Party and really don't want to pay our rake there. We will only do it if it's the last place where lots of fishy games still exist.
Stay Tuned...
BigBiceps
10-09-2005, 11:43 AM
I thought Paradise was acquiring Empire??
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They will RESPOND aggressively PP's action
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Yeah - by closing more accounts?
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You will also see HUGE incentives with bonuses
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Yeah - more hands needed to clear - and only for the people that dont have their accounts suddenly closed....
O Doyle Rules
10-09-2005, 11:49 AM
The Empire strikes back!
Paxosmotic
10-09-2005, 11:50 AM
I believe everything I read on internet forums.
radek2166
10-09-2005, 11:50 AM
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Many of you know me but since we can't discuss that in this forum
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Are you Mike Sexton?
LOL
It's not going to be the same as it was in the past as far as bonuses and such. EP realizes that they will have to do something drastic to lure the big players back away from Party.
The Paradise merger didn't go through, but like I said, I wouldn't be surprised if EP merges with another decent sized network to increase the player pool overnight.
It is a given that they will repond with all they have.
There life is on the line, if they make a good enough offer I will consider it.
I also fully expect every major site to try to pick up players durring this revolution.
It's going to be a good time.
cardcounter0
10-09-2005, 11:52 AM
Only when they are from unknown first time posters.
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It is a given that they will repond with all they have.
There life is on the line, if they make a good enough offer I will consider it.
I also fully expect every major site to try to pick up players durring this revolution.
It's going to be a good time.
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You do realize that this "revolution" involves exactly 3.6% of Partys revenue? And of that 3.6% there is a reasonable portion that dont care about the revolution. There is also a reasonable % that already went back to Party. That maybe leaves about 1% of Partys business up in the air.
radek2166
10-09-2005, 11:55 AM
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The Empire strikes back!
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Nh Sir!
crazyweasel
10-09-2005, 11:56 AM
Everything in business history and game theory suggests that when you have a silent cartel (i.e., everyone was more or less keeping rake the same) and are making a ton of money and one participant gets greedy and makes a move to steal market share (like Party just did), the other participants usually whack them really hard by engaging in a price/market share war until everyone gets sick of losing money and comes to a new equilibrium (in the process, some weaker players may go out of business or get gobbled up). So Party should prepare for a serious marketing war now. Maybe that was there plan all along, but I doubt.
radek2166
10-09-2005, 11:57 AM
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I believe everything I read on internet forums.
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I cornholed a sheep last night /images/graemlins/blush.gif
Hey guys, I understand that it's hard to be optimistic right now after all of us took a huge hit yesterday (and trust me, my hit was much greater than yours!). But I'm just saying don't forget that EP will respond. I think we just all figured we were going to now be playing at PP while EP died. It's not going to be that easy for PP. I predict in 3 months we may look back at this and think it was a great thing for us.
TemetNosce
10-09-2005, 12:00 PM
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The Empire strikes out !
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FYP /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Paxosmotic
10-09-2005, 12:01 PM
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I believe everything I read on internet forums.
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I cornholed a sheep last night /images/graemlins/blush.gif
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I find that infinitely more likely than any of these woodshed morons actually having contacted an insider at a multinational conglomerate.
radek2166
10-09-2005, 12:02 PM
I am wondering what empire is going to do? I think a rake cut would be good. Carnival games are bad. IMHO what party is going to do is kill the fish. Yes they are going to make money real quick. The thing is they are TAKING money off the tables.
Guthrie
10-09-2005, 12:04 PM
That's great, but my Empire money is back at Neteller for the duration.
cardcounter0
10-09-2005, 12:04 PM
Thanks for the optimistic thoughts, troll.
TemetNosce
10-09-2005, 12:05 PM
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IMHO what party is going to do is kill the fish.
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Just like the fish who dump $$ into negative EV games like slots and most table games in Las Vegas, right?
radek2166
10-09-2005, 12:06 PM
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I believe everything I read on internet forums.
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I cornholed a sheep last night /images/graemlins/blush.gif
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I find that infinitely more likely than any of these woodshed morons actually having contacted an insider at a multinational conglomerate.
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I am in Wyoming and have velcro gloves /images/graemlins/wink.gif. We do have a few posters here with inside info to sites. Lee Jones Havan and TruepokerCEO.
I would say its 10-1 in my favor that i cornholed the sheep. Might have been a ram if i cornholed it.SIIHP.
Drank way to much after this mess started yesterday. /images/graemlins/grin.gif
busguy
10-09-2005, 12:08 PM
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I am wondering what empire is going to do? I think a rake cut would be good. Carnival games are bad. IMHO what party is going to do is kill the fish. Yes they are going to make money real quick. The thing is they are TAKING money off the tables.
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And . . .. you come up with this garbage while you are pounding sheep ??
radek2166
10-09-2005, 12:10 PM
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I am wondering what empire is going to do? I think a rake cut would be good. Carnival games are bad. IMHO what party is going to do is kill the fish. Yes they are going to make money real quick. The thing is they are TAKING money off the tables.
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And . . .. you come up with this garbage while you are pounding sheep ??
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No they are taking money off the table. Do you not see that?
Petomane
10-09-2005, 12:10 PM
Yeah, right, a billion dollar conglomerate that didn't have a phone number and couldn't receive e-mails from most of it's customers. I moved from Empire to Party two months ago, because Empire was bad. Like I give a toss where I play, as long as there's fish. If Party gets tight, I'll move with the flow. There'll always be online poker and it's better than ever now.
I think it's so funny that some of you would rather focus on the fact that I don't ever post here and call me a "troll." Fact of the matter is, I deal with a lot of the 2+2ers on almost an everyday basis.
The point that I am making is a pretty obvious one to begin with, regarless of whether or not you believe that I had a long conversation with an important person within EP. Everybody just assumes that EP is history. They are worth literally BILLIONS of dollars. They are going to respond and respond AGGRESIVELY. I honestly think that PP destroyed their business in the longrun by what they did yesterday. EP will not retain the same number of players, but I believe they will be a respectable network and PP will lose their position as #1 quickly.
Solitare
10-09-2005, 12:14 PM
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Everything in business history and game theory suggests that when you have a silent cartel (i.e., everyone was more or less keeping rake the same) and are making a ton of money and one participant gets greedy and makes a move to steal market share (like Party just did), the other participants usually whack them really hard by engaging in a price/market share war until everyone gets sick of losing money and comes to a new equilibrium (in the process, some weaker players may go out of business or get gobbled up). So Party should prepare for a serious marketing war now. Maybe that was there plan all along, but I doubt.
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Good post.
Although I would imagine that Party is fully aware that they have started something and are prepared.
cardcounter0
10-09-2005, 12:16 PM
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Fact of the matter is, I deal with a lot of the 2+2ers on almost an everyday basis.
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How long have you been cleaning the floors at the porno parlor?
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I honestly think that PP destroyed their business in the longrun by what they did yesterday.
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If you honestly believe this then the rest of what you say should hold no value at all.
Wyers
10-09-2005, 12:21 PM
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I believe everything I read on internet forums.
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I cornholed a sheep last night /images/graemlins/blush.gif
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So late last night I'm leaving this Halloween party wearing my sheep costume...
busguy
10-09-2005, 12:22 PM
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I honestly think that PP destroyed their business in the longrun by what they did yesterday. EP will not retain the same number of players, but I believe they will be a respectable network and PP will lose their position as #1 quickly.
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Ok . . seriously . . . we get it.
We get that you are an affiliate who was massively affected by this because Empire is where you sign up your players.
We get that you feel the dire need to come on here and try to calm the waters so to speak in an effort to prevent a mass exodus.
But the point remains that by far the majority of Empire's player base was multi-tabling rakeback players and just the fact that YOU (an affiliate with a vested interest in saying it) say everything is going to be ok, doesn't make it so.
Seriously . . . go away . . . . and let's see how this all plays out.
radek2166
10-09-2005, 12:22 PM
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I honestly think that PP destroyed their business in the longrun by what they did yesterday.
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My point exactly. Very shrotsided thinking on party's part.
As to the guy talking about Vegas vs. Party. Its not even close.
Vegas sells the city. No RB no deposit bonus. It sells sex it seels excess. It sells the dream of hiitng it big. The little old people spending their retirment money with the hope of hitting it big.
Its like video poker. People actually believe that the games are set to hit at a certain time etc.
No people do not want to sit at home and wager the rent money.
radek2166
10-09-2005, 12:24 PM
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I believe everything I read on internet forums.
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I cornholed a sheep last night /images/graemlins/blush.gif
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So late last night I'm leaving this Halloween party wearing my sheep costume...
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DAMN!!!!!! That was you? hows the arse today?
It's nice to say that the skins only account for a small % of their income but they risk giving up being the worlds largest poker room and that is the revlution.
Party is taking a big risk.
radek2166
10-09-2005, 12:26 PM
[ QUOTE ]
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Everything in business history and game theory suggests that when you have a silent cartel (i.e., everyone was more or less keeping rake the same) and are making a ton of money and one participant gets greedy and makes a move to steal market share (like Party just did), the other participants usually whack them really hard by engaging in a price/market share war until everyone gets sick of losing money and comes to a new equilibrium (in the process, some weaker players may go out of business or get gobbled up). So Party should prepare for a serious marketing war now. Maybe that was there plan all along, but I doubt.
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Good post.
Although I would imagine that Party is fully aware that they have started something and are prepared.
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U my friend have too much faith in party.
POKhER
10-09-2005, 12:27 PM
I heard sportingbet.com approached Empire with a takeover bid or something?
Ill try find the source.
radek2166
10-09-2005, 12:29 PM
the mass exodus has happened. Now we sit and see how and where it settles.
mbpoker
10-09-2005, 12:29 PM
There are `other sites besides Empire.
What exactly is the attraction of Empire? They don't have their software, they don't have their support, they don't have their money processing, they don't have their poker site management. What they did have is to offer big bonuses to Party players while using Party fish. It cost big buck for Party to acquire this fish. When wa the last time Empire ran ads on NBC or on ESPN, or on Fox?
I wouldn't bet on players staying with Empire regardless of their new aggressive campaign. Players will move - some back to Party and some to other sites.
johnnymac
10-09-2005, 12:30 PM
Yea, but nothing came from it. Discussions were stopped agreeably from both parties. This of course would have annoyed Party as Sportingbet bought Paradise not so long ago.
Joe
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I think it's so funny that some of you would rather focus on the fact that I don't ever post here and call me a "troll." Fact of the matter is, I deal with a lot of the 2+2ers on almost an everyday basis.
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course ur a troll, u havent 2000 posts yet.....do u not know how 2+2 works????
as far as ur post goes, of course empire are gonna hit back hard. all the skins have to...its time for them to put up or shut up.
benfranklin
10-09-2005, 12:32 PM
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DAMN!!!!!! That was you? hows the arse today?
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Ah yes, Wyoming. Where men are men and sheep run scared.
Did you at least have the common courtesy to give him a reach-around?
mbpoker
10-09-2005, 12:34 PM
>They are worth literally BILLIONS of dollars
Marketing company worth billions. Sure. Didn't SportingBet pull out of negotiations when they discovered that Empire had nothing but a small group of marketing folks?
Chaostracize
10-09-2005, 12:35 PM
Ok. If you had any reason from Chase's post to believe he was a troll you are an idiot. Look at what he says. There is no trolling here.
I for one appreciated Chase's post.
cardcounter0
10-09-2005, 12:36 PM
And why does he know anything, even one little thing, more than anybody else? It is all speculation, he has no actually information. So appreciate it all you want, it is a meaningless post.
Chaostracize
10-09-2005, 12:38 PM
Did you get to Carpal Tunnel just by making posts like this? You really give a lot of great insight into this matter. Why don't you give your thoughts instead of making empty, insipid comments?
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And why does he know anything, even one little thing, more than anybody else? It is all speculation, he has no actually information. So appreciate it all you want, it is a meaningless post.
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personally i think its a good (if not a little obvious) post but a meaningless topic.......if he had 2k+ posts im sure u would all be jumping up and down in excitement.
btw, how many insiders at empire have u talked to in the last day?
dunno if OP really did or not but i have no reason to disbelieve him....but then again i only have 60ish posts so i havent received my free jackass transformation kit from 2+2 yet..
Chaostracize
10-09-2005, 12:41 PM
Think about it dude. There's only one thing we can't talk about on these forums. Once you figure out the answer you'll figure out both WHY he has an in with EP and WHY he talks to 2+2ers daily. Until you have any idea what's what, STFU.
Wyers
10-09-2005, 12:41 PM
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I believe everything I read on internet forums.
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I cornholed a sheep last night /images/graemlins/blush.gif
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So late last night I'm leaving this Halloween party wearing my sheep costume...
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DAMN!!!!!! That was you? hows the arse today?
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Sitting on a cushion.
Chaostracize
10-09-2005, 12:49 PM
This is not even remotely a meaningless topic.
Chaostracize
10-09-2005, 12:53 PM
Definitely a smart move to go from Empire to Party. Definitely smart.
mbpoker
10-09-2005, 12:54 PM
OK, so OP talked to the Empire insider. And this insider said "Empire will strike back". What else could this insider say? That they will fold and go home?
Chaostracize
10-09-2005, 12:54 PM
And this is true why?
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This is not even remotely a meaningless topic.
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perhaps not a meaningless topic....unlike a lot here, im big enought to hold my hands up to using a bad phrase.
it is a meaningless gurning session tho..the vast majority of the "crying" going on bout this topic is that there will be no more fish at (former) skins and rocks will make it harder to win. the minority of the crying is just following what the others are doing
solution...RB at party where the fish are.
second solution....open ur eyes to the number of networks out there that offer high RB, bonuses and also house some of the fishiest fish i have seen.
third solution....stay at skins and improve ur game and it will remain as always.
hashi92
10-09-2005, 07:03 PM
Why are there so many die hard empire loyalist.
they have screwed numerous people on this forum. many people use to play there just so they could multitable.
hashi92
10-09-2005, 07:09 PM
oh yeah
theyll come up with another empire500 bonus and than take it back after a ton of people have jumped on there network. or offer insane rake back and than start closing accounts because its against there policy. i dont understand why rake back should be any concern of poker sites anyway. rake back is money that poker sites have already decided to give to there affiliates. isnt that why they give rake back to affiliates so that they increase traffic.
scotty34
10-09-2005, 07:10 PM
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Everything in business history and game theory suggests that when you have a silent cartel (i.e., everyone was more or less keeping rake the same) and are making a ton of money and one participant gets greedy and makes a move to steal market share (like Party just did), the other participants usually whack them really hard by engaging in a price/market share war until everyone gets sick of losing money and comes to a new equilibrium (in the process, some weaker players may go out of business or get gobbled up). So Party should prepare for a serious marketing war now. Maybe that was there plan all along, but I doubt.
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Which is exactly why gas prices are so low right now.
SinCityGuy
10-09-2005, 07:12 PM
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They are a multi BILLION dollar corporation and won't just sit back and watch their players leave for PP.
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With all that money, maybe now is the time for them to buy a telephone.
Greg J
10-09-2005, 07:14 PM
So you were the guy I saw donkeypunching the dude in the sheep costume last night. I thought I was seeing things cuz i was so wasted...
1800GAMBLER
10-09-2005, 07:17 PM
People should give the OP more credit, he's on to something here.
Danielih
10-09-2005, 07:19 PM
You are a big empire affiliate?
scott2130
10-09-2005, 07:28 PM
It is Sunday night and I won't be playing much this week, so I will give Empire a chance to strike back before I move back to Party. Coming from a business background, what your are saying sounds reasonable, but it will have to be good to make up for the loss of all those fish. It is 7:25 and EP has 7,359 players compared to 50,420 on Party. That is alot to overcome.
scotty34
10-09-2005, 07:31 PM
It would make sense for basically every poker site to "respond" to Party's action. If they are paying attention to their customers, they would realize there are a TON of high-volume players who can't figure out where to place their loyalty right now. This would be a great opportunity for any site who can make a good offer that caters to the players' needs. Stars has the right idea, and I'm sure many others, including EP, will come up with their own plan.
cardcounter0
10-09-2005, 08:41 PM
Hey, I bought a new Ford yesterday, so ask me all about Ford's new marketing plans.
The guy is an affiliate. That gives him absolute zero inside knowledge of what Empire is going to do. But it does give him a vested interest in posting feel good messages.
So until you have some actual knowldege of anything actual, STFU.
cardcounter0
10-09-2005, 08:44 PM
The topic isn't meaningless, but anybody coming across as saying they have 'inside information' is BS.
Hey, I bought a new Ford yesterday, so ask me all about Ford's new marketing plans.
The guy is an affiliate. That gives him absolute zero inside knowledge of what Empire is going to do. But it does give him a vested interest in posting feel good messages.
So until you have some actual knowldege of anything actual, STFU.
StellarWind
10-09-2005, 09:52 PM
You guys are missing the most important thing about Empire.
They have a powerful affiliate network. Note that I am not talking about the rakeback affiliates but real honest-to-God big website operators and direct-mail businesses who pull in fish.
I have gotten more direct (non-rakeback) solicitations from Empire affiliates then all other sites put together.
Up until now most of the fish they caught had to be thrown back because when they went to sign up, the software rejected them because they already had an account with Party.
To a lesser extent I'm sure the same problem plagued Eurobet and Intertops when they tried to convert their punters to poker.
That is over. It is now open season on Party's entire customer base. No more genteel (read: ineffective) competition from sites like Stars and Paradise. Real competition from determined adversaries.
It's going to be a real war.
By positioning itself as the high-price player, Party has left itself very vulnerable. It's not that rake reduction has been a particularly effective marketing weapon, but the high-price environment ensures that Party's competitiors will have plenty of money to lavish on their affiliates and keep them motivated.
Meanwhile existing and future rakeback deals will ensure that many of us don't completely abandon them while things sort out.
StellarWind
10-09-2005, 09:56 PM
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The topic isn't meaningless, but anybody coming across as saying they have 'inside information' is BS.
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I have a strong suspicion who OP is and I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt.
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So until you have some actual knowldege of anything actual, STFU.
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Do you see the irony in this? *You* don't actually know that he isn't everything he says he is.
William Wilson
10-09-2005, 11:32 PM
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I would say its 10-1 in my favor that i cornholed the sheep. Might have been a ram if i cornholed it.SIIHP.
Drank way to much after this mess started yesterday. /images/graemlins/grin.gif
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When you sober up, you'll remember Rams cornhole Pokes. It's never the other way around. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif
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