Affiliates = PIMPS

[toxtox]

This topic is continued from another thread, but made me wonder if anyone else feels this way.

[toxtox]

sites should offer the option of doing away with the middle man for those people who want to sign up directly. it seems ridiculous that people decide they want to play at a certain site THEN go look for an affiliate...who thus arent doing anything for the site in terms of rounding up these kind of players (since they already knew about the site and already wanted to play there).

[Petomane]

I agree. Now that the rakeback scam is over, I wonder how many "winning" players will be left?

[toxtox]

judging from the replies i got in my other thread "to all of you who are so upset about this..." id say not too many.

im glad the pimps are taking a hit though, moreso than the rakeback whores (to continue the analogy - and including myself, lol).

[John Ho]

Well the difference here is that the recreational, non rakeback receiving players are in effect subsidizing our rakebacks since none of their rake is given to any affiliates. I have no problem with this concept as us heavy usage players are in effect partners with our playing sites. New players feel much better playing with a site where they see hundreds of games going rather than smaller sites that seem (unfairly or not) as if they may go out of business next week. And we keep games going which otherwise might break if they got too short.

I would compare Affiliates to discount stockbrokers. They take money from you and do little real work in return but having a full service broker taking the same orders from you but charging you triple is much worse.

[toxtox]

Yes but dont you feel that sites who already have set it up so that they auto-pay your rakeback to your account should set up an option for the informed player to do away with the middle man affiliate?

When i signed up at Carribean Sun I knew I would open an account there to try out the site for awhile..so I went looking for an affiliate then downloaded the site through his link without even talking to him....then Caribbean Sun automatically puts my rakeback in my account every month. meanwhile other then a quick email to tell this affiliate that i signed up, he has done nothing and served no part in bringing me to the site, yet he gets a chunk of my rake. That is absurd. Caribbean is the one doing the payments, he is doing nothing and did not recommend me to the site or anything in the first place. The affiliate in cases like this is useless. (P-I-M-P)

[John Ho]

All true but the fact is we DO NOT WANT everyone on every site to get rakeback. Because everything that goes to THEM comes from somewhere and that means US. The regular players do the sites a big service by keeping games running and making the site look active. I have no problem with a system that rewards us.

You can hate the affiliates all you want. Otherwise the alternative is NO ONE gets rakeback (bad) or EVERYONE gets some sort of rakeback (which is in itself a retarded concept and worse than using affiliates.)

Who cares if someone is making money off you? Worry about what you are making money yourself by using this guy's service? If most homebuyers really thought about how much money the real estate agents make off them for basically doing monkey work they would probably stab the agent. But what are you gonna do.....not buy a house cause it makes someone else money?

[toxtox]

I'm not saying you should automatically be signed up for rakeback through the site. otherwise that would be the exact same as them simply reducing the entire rake by 25-30%.

im talking about the sites having a discreet option for people who already know the site offers rakeback to not bother with the affiliate, who really isnt necessary at these sites.

The reason i care that this dude makes money off me for doing nothing is that its money that could otherwise go back to ME. If the site is giving him 5% of my rake and me 25% of my rake, I'd rather go directly thru the site and get the whole 30% myself. makes sense no? (just as how a hooker who finds her own johns shouldnt have to give a cut to her pimp who did nothing to arrange it all).

[Unabridged]

[ QUOTE ]
All true but the fact is we DO NOT WANT everyone on every site to get rakeback. Because everything that goes to THEM comes from somewhere and that means US. The regular players do the sites a big service by keeping games running and making the site look active. I have no problem with a system that rewards us.

You can hate the affiliates all you want. Otherwise the alternative is NO ONE gets rakeback (bad) or EVERYONE gets some sort of rakeback (which is in itself a retarded concept and worse than using affiliates.)

Who cares if someone is making money off you? Worry about what you are making money yourself by using this guy's service? If most homebuyers really thought about how much money the real estate agents make off them for basically doing monkey work they would probably stab the agent. But what are you gonna do.....not buy a house cause it makes someone else money?

[/ QUOTE ]

why couldn't the sites just set a minimum MGR to get rakeback? that way the occasional players don't get it.

i completely agree with the OP. the affiliates get rich just for shuffling customers around the same site and transferring money. now that everyone is aware of partypoker, it would be in theirs and player's best interest to just give rb directly.
its just that simple:
party gives $X to affiliates, affiliates take $Y and give $X-Y to players. so it costs party $X to buy $X-Y worth of loyality. instead they could just give $X-Y straight to the players account and achieve the same effect. the players benefit by being guarenteed a timely payment in their account.
anyone who disagrees is a pimp

[toxtox]

yep...but atleast at the sites where the affilates are responisble for transferring out the money they are actually doing something (all be it, very little). at many sites the transfering is done by the site itself (such as Carribean Sun and BetonBet, and I think UB is/was that way as well but dont know from experience). In these cases the affiliate does jack-all. doesnt even have to deal with u signing up, you simply download the site thru his link in many cases. quite silly to me.

[John Ho]

This really makes no business sense. Put yourself in PartyPokers' shoes and ask yourself whether you want to give rakeback to players who may not even know rakeback exists. The whole point is to make it hard to get rakeback.

It is similar to getting rebates on something at Best Buy. They know a certain % of people will not take advantage of the offer. But if they just gave it to everyone then it would be a simple matter of raising the price to keep the profits the same as before.

Why make it easier to get rakeback? We want it to be somewhat difficult to do so rakes stay lower and other players subsidize our rakeback. But hey that's just my opinion....anyone who disagrees isn't selfish like I am.

[Unabridged]

[ QUOTE ]
This really makes no business sense. Put yourself in PartyPokers' shoes and ask yourself whether you want to give rakeback to players who may not even know rakeback exists. The whole point is to make it hard to get rakeback.

It is similar to getting rebates on something at Best Buy. They know a certain % of people will not take advantage of the offer. But if they just gave it to everyone then it would be a simple matter of raising the price to keep the profits the same as before.

Why make it easier to get rakeback? We want it to be somewhat difficult to do so rakes stay lower and other players subsidize our rakeback. But hey that's just my opinion....anyone who disagrees isn't selfish like I am.

[/ QUOTE ]

if they set the right minimum criteria (MGR, hands played per month) they could be giving it a group of players whom most(>90% for example) already know about and actively persue rakeback. as long as that 10%'s MGR*rb% is less than the amount made by all the affiliates, they are coming out ahead.
Plus they could probably get rid of most of their bonuses and still keep all those players
Also you have to remember, all those fish that are unaware with high MGR are probably still signed up under some affiliate. and party is already paying that affiliate.

[Nick-Zack]

[ QUOTE ]

why couldn't the sites just set a minimum MGR to get rakeback? that way the occasional players don't get it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Every good idea in this world has already been taken - go to www.pokerchamps.com (http://www.pokerchamps.com) if you like this one.

[rt1]

these ideas are all good, but they dont work. you need to have an affiliate. remember, party is a publically traded company... if certainly players are DIRECTLY getting rakeback (paying less fees and losing less money) this could very well turn into a huge rigged/favored debate.

sure, casinos love to give comps... but direct cash comps... no way.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
The reason i care that this dude makes money off me for doing nothing is that its money that could otherwise go back to ME.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rakeback was created by the affilate business... if you like rakeback you should be kissing your affiliates feet for him giving you the opportunity!

Its worth noting that the largest affiliates are non-rakeback affiliates!

[Unabridged]

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sure, casinos love to give comps... but direct cash comps... no way.

[/ QUOTE ]

why not for online casinos? its not like they can give us free hotel rooms or buffetts.
and really whats the difference between a guarenteed monthly bonus and rakeback if they give the same amount of money for the same amount of play

Along your same analogy, if my affiliate is a pimp, then at this time with all the goings on at Party and the skins, it would be in his best interest in convincing me to move to greener pastures where he and I could both continue to make money. I have heard from my affiliate, and he is in the process of setting up something with Party. I am sure he is in a MUCH better position to negotiate with Party than I am. I will be happy to take the results of his negotiation.

On a similar note, my affiliate sent everyone a 3% raise from Empire if we decide to stay. I thought that was an extremely good move whether it came from the affiliate himself, or directly from Empire.

[toxtox]

Party/skins were not even in my reasoning though...i was talking about the sites who ALREADY offer rakeback and do the transfers themselves.

(not everything about rakeback/affiliates has to be about Party does it..)

Very true. I assumed that the thread was equating all affiliates to pimps. While they may be pimps, I am just stating that they do perform a worthwhile function, at least to me.

[toxtox]

Yes they are all pimps, and some are worthwhile to have. Its just that others are not necessary. Those r the pimps I wanna do away with.

Some affiliates also just plain act sleazy! I don't like them in general, I wanna be a free-ass whore I guess, but alas we need the pimps for some of the sites.

[Gregg777]

Sniper is the only person in this thread that seems to have the slightest idea of what is going on.

Poker sites have affiliate programs only as a means to direct new customers to their site. It is simply subsidized advertising.

The problem with the system is that everyone already knows about the sites. As a result, the affiliate industry is highly competitive, to the point that they give almost all of their income back to the person they signed up!

This is almost unheard of in other online affiliate programs. It only exists with poker affiliates because of the unusual circumstances.

You people calling affiliates pimps, while correct on the one hand, are completely misguided on the other. Technically we shouldn't be getting any of the rakeback, fortunately we do, so don't be too harsh.

And no, I don't have a thing to do with any rakebacks...

[HavanaBanana]

[ QUOTE ]
these ideas are all good, but they dont work. you need to have an affiliate. remember, party is a publically traded company... if certainly players are DIRECTLY getting rakeback (paying less fees and losing less money) this could very well turn into a huge rigged/favored debate.

sure, casinos love to give comps... but direct cash comps... no way.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are arguing for a lost cause, not only are affiliates who do not create new players or action superfluous (as in the sites can do all that themselves), but also taking money out of the system that the players would have reinvested.

I say they are P.I.M.P.L.E.S. on the poker community's arse.

Now on the other hand, affiliates who actually contributes NEW players are useful and actually serves a purpose.

I see you are a Moderator here, so I guess you are not exactly unbiased either.

You should include a disclaimer on the bottom of your posts if that is the case.

ToT

(Neva eva signed up knowingly under any P.I.M.P!) WORD UP!

[O Doyle Rules]

[ QUOTE ]
these ideas are all good, but they dont work. you need to have an affiliate. ...if certainly players are DIRECTLY getting rakeback (paying less fees and losing less money) this could very well turn into a huge rigged/favored debate.

sure, casinos love to give comps... but direct cash comps... no way.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would tend to argue that this does in fact happen and an affiliate is not needed.

Affiliates would be best served if they sold themselves on the basis of the service they provide rather than to go down this road. Good affiliates are worth the percentage they receive because of service.

Saying all this, I still would not classify affiliates as pimps, because then that would make me a "ho". /images/graemlins/laugh.gif