IS this a standard play?

[slim]

Say you have AA on the buttonand raise after a few (3-5) limpers. The blinds fold and the flop is 8-8-3 .......no flush, no str8 possible. Everyone checks to you and you bet, and get 1-2 callers. Turn is a brick (non-ace). They check to you again.
Here's the question. Do you always check the turn? I almost always do to avoid a CR. What else can a player possibly call the flopbet with other than trips? If they have trips, you'e avoided a CR, if they don't, by checking the turn, they're likely to bluff at the river thinking you have AK.
So in summary, for the scenario described, is the standard play to bet-check-call(or bet if checked to on river)?

[Bob T.]

I would bet again, and reevaluate, after I get checkraised. Any pocket pair might be calling hoping that you have AK, and two big cards might have called, hoping that they had overcards to your pair. They might call again, and again on the river. I would keep betting until someone gives me bad news.

[SoBeDude]

I hate giving the free card on the turn with the very vulnerable AA.

I think not betting here is a mistake.

-Scott

[slim]

I normally hate giving free cards but in the situation that I describe, I don't think there are many free cards that'll hurt you. If you have AA, there are no overcards to hurt you. If your oponent has a pocket pair, he only has 2 outs to make trips and he is not folding if you bet the turn anyways so you haven't cost yourself the pot by checking the turn. With a flop of a middle pair and a 2 and no str8 or flush draws, I don't see what an opponent will call the flop with other than if he has trips or a pocket pair.

[Bob T.]

Yeah, but if you don't bet, you don't charge the opponents that will call, a bet for trying to get to the river. I think that it will cost you a lot more in lost bets, than you will save in checkraises, if you check the turn.

[potmo]

I think checking the turn is not a bad play here myself, although, depending on who you are up against there are plenty of hands they will call u with on the flop including overcards and pocket pairs. Like you say, there are not that many free cards that can hurt you (other than a pp filling up ack). Since you have raised on the button, you don't necessarilly have a monster and your check on the turn will often induce bluffs on the river whereas your opponents would have just folded perhaps had you bet the turn. Finally you might now get called on the river where you wouldnt have been on the turn. I'm more likely to make this play against one opponent than two, and if I know my opponents would never
CR without actually having trips or better then of course I am betting the turn. If I'm not mistaken, S&M describe this play in HPFAP under inducing a bluff.

-potmo

[SoBeDude]

I disagree here.

I think many more people will call a turn bet because there is a card left to come. They're hoping that the river will bring them the card they need to win the hand thus they'll call.

Now on the river, when that card has not come, they will fold. So you've really lost money here with this play.

UNLESS you're really convinced that the table will fold to your turn bet. If you're fairly certain then you lose nothing by checking (since you lost no money) and may gain because you might get a weak call or bluff bet on the river.

I'd bet the turn probably better than 90% here.

-Scott

[DaBartman]

A pocket pair is the most likely suspect. If you bet it, they will call. A mistake that costs me an extra bet is never as bad as a mistake that costs me the pot. BET!

[KMD]

I have a pretty clear idea of what I would do but potmo has already made the best argument. The only thing I can ad is borrowed from a cardplayer author. "It depends." If you feel your 1-2 callers are tight players who may have called with nothing but a strong made hand I'd check. Also if you feel the 1-2 players have a mediocre hand that would have been folded if they missed the turn, then feel they can bluff you out on the river you've actually gotten more bets in the pot than if you bet the turn. Only decent hands will call the turn bet with that kind of flop, which makes me think you aren't "missing" bets. AA is NOT invincible.

take it from me, listen to potmo

[slim]

There have been arguments made that I am losing a bet by not betting the turn but I just see it. The only way I am losing a bet by checking the turn is if my opponent is a REALLY poor player. The only hand that I can see anyone calling with other than trips is either a pocket pair or the non-paired flop card. The odds of someone having a pocket pair is 17-1 so it's not worth a bet on the turn for that kind of odds. Only a poor player would call with 2 overcards, or backdoor str8 or flush.....remember, in the situation I described, there aren't that many bets in the pot to justify chasing backdoor hands.
Also, I am talking about a flop like 8-8-3 or 7-7-2 not a flop like 2-2-8 where someone with an 8 will definitely call and therefore it would be worth betting the turn.

[Hotchile]

I'd like to know what positions your opponents are in to be calling that flop and then start making decisions from there. If they are middle position limpers, the 8 is a higher risk than if they were early limpers. I think that a middle position opener with an overpair to the board would probably have raised pre-flop themselves giving you a better gauge of their range of hands.

In probably 60-65% of these situations I would bet.

HC

[potmo]

If a player has, say 33 he will be reticent to call two BB's against a possible big pair. However if you check the turn, he will be very likely to check and call the river putting you on AK/AQ. I've also been called on the river with as little as K high when I choose to make this play. I think checking the turn has alot of merit here, though it is not always clear at all that it is better than just betting out. If you are up against an exitable trickster you might get check raised bluffed which of course would be the best possible scenario. But when I have chosen to check the turn, I have frequently found that I gain an extra bet because my opponent now leads at the river or because he calls at the end when he would have mucked the turn.

-potmo

[SoBeDude]

I'd guess it's hard to say they'd muck the turn, perhaps those players would have called both bets?

-Scott