how can we short empire poker?

[The4Aces]

My guess is the stock will go down soon, but i dont now how to do it.

[fnord_too]

Is Empire even a publicly traded company?

[The4Aces]

yes. i dont know the symbol though

[Sniper]

Party and Empire both trade on the London Stock Exchange...
Party = PRTY
Empire = EOL

To pull up quotes on yahoo finance, add .L to the end of the symbols.

[bungyrocks]

Empire is down over 30% since friday. Party is down too, but has been steadily declining for a week

[Simplistic]

it's too late to trade based on the news you heard. price has already been taken into account.

[FishHooks]

It's always that way...unless insider trading.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
It's always that way...unless insider trading.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was most certainly not too late to short Empire at the open this morning.

[foldmasta]

[ QUOTE ]
it's too late to trade based on the news you heard. price has already been taken into account.

[/ QUOTE ]

No way... Empire will be traded below 100p until Wednesday and under 10 (yes "10") before April 30, 2006.

[foldmasta]

[ QUOTE ]
ROUNDUP Empire Online shares slammed by worries over PartyGaming relationship
10.10.2005 14:07:52, AFX Europe Focus

-- by Rob Branch --
LONDON (AFX) - Empire Online Ltd posted a strong rise in third-quarter
revenues and profit but shares plunged 28 pct as investors fretted over the
internet-based gaming group's relationship with its key customer.
Empire shares sank 51.5 pence to 131.5 by 12.35 pm, valuing the company at
around 385 mln stg. The collapse saw other shares in the sector slammed as more
optimistic industry growth forecasts were once again called into question.
The slide came after PartyGaming PLC, owner of the world's biggest online
poker site and Empire's biggest customer, said it had moved its PartyPoker.com
brand and all of its players to a newly integrated operating platform.
The decision, which had previously been flagged, marks an attempt by
PartyGaming to reduce its reliance on the likes of Empire for the generation of
new custom.
Seymour Pierce analyst Paul Leyland said while it was by no means
unexpected, investors, who remain extremely jittery following PartyGaming's
September 6 warning, had been "spooked" by the announcement.
"I think the slide is overdone as they have got sufficient resources to
ensure decent tournaments, decent prizes and full tables. The key is that they
have got to build up their own platforms faster than Party can mess up their
'skins' revenues," Leyland said.
Empire reported third-quarter net gaming revenues up 71 pct year-on-year to
31.4 mln usd, while net operating profit increased 43 pct to 16.1 mln usd.
The increase was driven by a sharp rise in the number of people playing
poker and other casino-style games, 53,148 having actively played for money in
the period, up 62 pct on the same period a year ago and 24 pct over the quarter.
Spokesman Andrew Burnett said Empire was seeing no evidence of an
industry-wide slowdown, in marked contrast to cautious projections from
PartyGaming.
"We are seeing good growth in the industry. We are not seeing any sign that
growth is tailing off," he told AFX News.
Chief executive Noam Lanir said in a statement that Empire was determined to
pursue industry-consolidating opportunities as they arose following the recent
successful acquisition of casino and poker brands Club Dice and Noble Poker.
Designed to cut its reliance on income streams from PartyGaming and fellow
client 888 Holdings PLC, Burnett said he was "astonished" by how well the
businesses had performed.
Empire stock has lost 52 pct of its value since PartyGaming's alert, in
tandem with sector peers.
Investors were dealt another blow earlier this month when rival online
gaming group Sportingbet PLC scrapped plans to launch a 791 mln stg bid for
Empire.
Among other shares in the sector, PartyGaming fell 8 pct to a new low of
73.75 pence, while Sportingbet and 888 Holdings declined 4 pct and 8 pct
respectively.
rob.branch@afxnews.com
rhb/har



COPYRIGHT

Copyright AFX News Limited 2005. All rights reserved.

The copying, republication or redistribution of AFX News content, including by
framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written
consent of AFX News.

AFX News and the AFX Financial News logo are registered trademarks of AFX News
Limited

[/ QUOTE ]

So an effin Party/CON affiliate is valued at 385 MILLION STERLING even after Party ("main client" LOL) kicked them...

Nice Hand

[Unabridged]

this is the type of events why i wish there was a 24hr nonstop market. everyone on 2+2 would have scooped half of the traders in europe.
also i guarentee a few people in the know at party made a [censored] bundle.

[FishHooks]

and it might not be too late to do so tomorrow either, who knows..thats the point...people who think they can time the market make me sick. However a couple days ago I suggested someone short the stock...man I'm good.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
people who think they can time the market make me sick.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's only because you haven't educated yourself enough, to the ways of the market yet!

[lu_hawk]

[ QUOTE ]
this is the type of events why i wish there was a 24hr nonstop market. everyone on 2+2 would have scooped half of the traders in europe.
also i guarentee a few people in the know at party made a [censored] bundle.

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean to say there might have been leaks at an India based gambling company? And they might have illegally profited off of this info?!

[FishHooks]

I think it's the other way around, my major is economics, and most economists can't even predit the market or stocks.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's the other way around, my major is economics, and most economists can't even predit the market or stocks.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Everyone who believes in efficient markets is poor." Namely college economics professors and economics academics.

eastbay

[FishHooks]

Thats why the richest investor warren buffet doesn't even try to time the market.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
Thats why the richest investor warren buffet doesn't even try to time the market.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nobody said it's the only way to profit.

Buffett doesn't. Many billionaires and many more millionaries do.

eastbay

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
Thats why the richest investor warren buffet doesn't even try to time the market.

[/ QUOTE ]

Firstly, buffett thru Berkshire buys businesses, he's not in the stock trading business.

Second, your impression of bufffett is wrong, just look at his timing decisions in the other commodities that he trades /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[FishHooks]

Yea I'm sure he baught all that Budweiswer stock because he thought the price was going to spike in the upcoming days...

[Sniper]

Fish,

You are missing the point...

What exactly do you think it means when Buffett says... that valuations in the market are too high and he can't find anyplace worth investing all his cash... thats called timing... his time frames just happen to be longer than most /images/graemlins/wink.gif

And this direct quote from the 2004 annual...

[ QUOTE ]
That’s true as well of our experience in the market with the group. Since our original purchases, valuation gains have somewhat exceeded earnings growth because price/earnings ratios have increased. On a year-to-year basis, however, the business and market performances have often diverged, sometimes to an extraordinary degree. During The Great Bubble, market-value gains far outstripped the performance of the businesses. In the aftermath of the Bubble, the reverse was true.

Clearly, Berkshire’s results would have been far better if I had caught this swing of the pendulum. That may seem easy to do when one looks through an always-clean, rear-view mirror. Unfortunately, however, it’s the windshield through which investors must peer, and that glass is invariably fogged. Our huge positions add to the difficulty of our nimbly dancing in and out of holdings as valuations swing.

Nevertheless, I can properly be criticized for merely clucking about nose-bleed valuations during the Bubble rather than acting on my views. Though I said at the time that certain of the stocks we held were priced ahead of themselves, I underestimated just how severe the overvaluation was. I talked when I should have walked.

[/ QUOTE ]

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
Fish,

You are missing the point...

What exactly do you think it means when Buffett says... that valuations in the market are too high and he can't find anyplace worth investing all his cash... thats called timing... his time frames just happen to be longer than most /images/graemlins/wink.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Sniper,

Didn't you get the memo? Every econ prof. in the US signed it:

You can't time the market
TA doesn't work
Markets are efficient
Have your TPS reports to me every Monday

Mantras. The more you chant them the deeper your faith becomes.

eastbay

[DesertCat]

[ QUOTE ]
it's too late to trade based on the news you heard. price has already been taken into account.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wonder how Empire has any value now. Didn't their most important players all just move to Party? I.e. assume for every hundred players, they have one full time multitabling maniac (MMM).

This guy used to be me.The MMM four tabling for 6 hours a day and generating around $4000 a month in rake. The other 99 players are amateurs, who play a couple times a week, one or two tabling. They generate $100 or so a month in rake.

By my (totally made up) calculation, the MMM's would generate almost 30% of Empires revenue. And all of those are leaving now that they can 10 table at Party, get rakeback, and still have acess to the fish. Of course, the amateur players will stay, so Empire should have 70% of their revenues, right?

Well what if the MMM's were making up one out of fifty Empire players, or one out of forty? In the latter case, they would have been generating half of the revenues.

Frankly from my last experience with Empire (after the split) it seemed as if half the players were MMM's. I wondered if Empire had ever recruited a single fish, or if it had just relied on it's rakeback to recruit all pro players who wanted access to Party's fish tank.

It will be very interesting to see what happens next quarter. I wouldn't be shocked if Empires revenues declined anywhere from 30-90%.

[FishHooks]

Thats why the most successful investors like Buffet dont time the market with day trading.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
Thats why the most successful investors like Buffet dont time the market with day trading.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hooks,

You obviously missed the sarcasm in his post and neglected to read my post that included buffetts own thoughts on timing.

In any event, day trading and investing are only two different approaches to the market, of many. While timing is important in them, most classified as "Market Timers" usually focus on an intermediate time frame.

If you want to praise buffett, at least understand what he does /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[FishHooks]

I do know what he does, and obviously I picked up the sarcasm which is why I braught up Warren Buffet to counter act his sarcasm post.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
I do know what he does, and obviously I picked up the sarcasm which is why I braught up Warren Buffet to counter act his sarcasm post.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me do my impression of you:

"You can't make money with buy and hold. Just look at John Henry!"

eastbay

[DesertCat]

[ QUOTE ]

"You can't make money with buy and hold. Just look at John Henry!"

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a great example as most of John Henry's funds trail the market. He appears to be an example of a guy who parlayed a few hot (i.e. lucky) years into managing a huge pile of money for others, getting richer from fees even while he generates mediocre returns.

[Sniper]

Meanwhile back to the original topic...

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder how Empire has any value now. Didn't their most important players all just move to Party?... I wondered if Empire had ever recruited a single fish, or if it had just relied on it's rakeback to recruit all pro players who wanted access to Party's fish tank.


[/ QUOTE ]

Cat, you fail to understand Empire's business... they could lose almost all their poker customers (which isn't going to happen) and still be profitable [but, of course, worth alot less]. As a side note, they also have recruited many of their own fish.