okay with how I played this? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

10-08-2005, 08:07 PM

Is this an alright call preflop? I'm trying to hit the set. The flop was just weird. Afterwards I wanted to keep it small. In the end do you lay this down when you can win about 1100 chips (when you have to call 100)? I wanted to, but I couldn't pass up the pot odds. Does anybody even bother betting this?

PokerStars Game #2757574665: Tournament #13241922, Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2005/10/08 - 19:59:30 (ET)
Table '13241922 12' Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: flolmn (1460 in chips)
Seat 2: CashCow1972 (2420 in chips)
Seat 3: folliaomix (1550 in chips)
Seat 4: jackhigh62 (1150 in chips)
Seat 5: 17wendel (1320 in chips)
Seat 6: E-350 (1000 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 7: drbob2004 (900 in chips)
Seat 8: FGators26 (1440 in chips)
Seat 9: coinworld (2150 in chips)
FGators26: posts small blind 10
coinworld: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to FGators26 [7d 7h]
CashCow1972 said, "nh"
flolmn: calls 20
CashCow1972: calls 20
folliaomix: raises 60 to 80
coinworld said, "u 2"
jackhigh62: folds
17wendel: folds
E-350: folds
drbob2004: calls 80
FGators26: calls 70
coinworld: calls 60
flolmn: calls 60
CashCow1972: calls 60
*** FLOP *** [2h 5c Ks]
FGators26: checks
coinworld: checks
flolmn: checks
CashCow1972: checks
folliaomix: checks
drbob2004: checks
*** TURN *** [2h 5c Ks] [4c]
FGators26: bets 80
coinworld: calls 80
flolmn: calls 80
CashCow1972: folds
folliaomix: folds
drbob2004: calls 80
*** RIVER *** [2h 5c Ks 4c] [9s]
FGators26: bets 80
coinworld: folds
flolmn: raises 140 to 220
drbob2004: folds
FGators26: calls 140

10-09-2005, 05:49 AM

First of all, please, please, please use the hand converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi). It makes things so much easier (see below).

Secondly, that bet of 80 chips is what Harrington calls a "dark tunnel" bet. What is it supposed to do? It's not really going to push anyone who has any part of the flop at all out of the hand. You get called by any flush draw, any straight draw, any king, any 5, any 4, any pocket pair and maybe A high. It doesn't give you any information about the hand or what other people are holding at all. They could have trips or nothing at all. The only time you make a bet that small with this many people in the hand is when you have the nuts and want to keep people in the hand. You want the next card to help them, just not enough to beat you. All it does is sweeten and inflate the pot (meaning you have to bet bigger later if you want to take it without a showdown) when you have a mediocre hand.

You want to bet about 300 or so chips on the flop. There's only one overcard out there, meaning that if someone doesn't have the K, big pockets (AA, QQ, JJ, maybe TT), or two pair they probably fold. If they call with anything else, they're making a mistake, unless they think you're weak and they can take the pot away from you later.

If you are too scared to bet the flop, you have to bet at least 300 on the turn. If somebody re-raises, you can always fold, but I don't think that most people would slowplay anything less than AK on the flop. If you get re-raised, you're beat (unless you have reason to think they're bluffing, but that's another story entirely and it's probably not happening here).

If you get called on the flop bet, your probably done betting the hand. You might call a small river bet, but that's all. Unless, of course, you think that the person might have called with something like a pocket pair less than Kings. If they did, you can probably move them off of their pair (which is probably better than yours) by betting again on the turn. Your flop continuation bet gets you information on what the other people might be holding. It also announces that you have some sort of hand (you would'nt make a stone bluff into a hand that still had 6 people in it. Considering that you called a reasonable sized raise pre-flop, it's not unreasonable for them to think you have a king. Now on the turn, you have to decide whether to reinforce that notion in their heads or just check-fold if you think that they have a king. Most people probably aren't going to keep calling with an underpair when there is a king on the board, and you shouldn't either, raise or fold (with the exception of the small river bet, because you know that is all of the chips you'll have to put into the hand, you can't get raised again later).

This, is, of course, a bit more complicated. If you're scared of betting something less than top pair, then just follow the simple rule for small/medium pockets "no set, no bet," although you also might bet a flop of all undercards.

If you haven't, I recommend that you read Harrington on Holdem vols. 1 & 2. They will vastly improve your understanding in situations like this.

Oh, and even though you're probably beat, You've got to call a river bet of only 100 chips, especially if you are last or next to last to act (i.e. the bettor was just to your left).

Will

P.S. Please tell me how the hand turned out and what the buy-in on this tournament was, thanks.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t1460)
UTG+1 (t2420)
MP1 (t1550)
MP2 (t1150)
MP3 (t1320)
CO (t1000)
Button (t900)
Hero (t1440)
BB (t2150)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls t20, UTG+1 calls t20, MP1 raises to t80, 3 folds, Button calls t80, Hero calls t70, BB calls t60, UTG calls t60, UTG+1 calls t60.

Flop: (t480) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Button checks.

Turn: (t480) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (6 players)
Hero bets t80, BB calls t80, UTG calls t80, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, Button calls t80.

River: (t800) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)

Final Pot: t800