Tables different on Party vs Skins

Anyone else notice that the tables on Party don't match up with the tables on Euro? For example, the NL100 tables on Euro are numbered between 36000-54000. On party, they are all in the 65000 range.

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone else notice that the tables on Party don't match up with the tables on Euro? For example, the NL100 tables on Euro are numbered between 36000-54000. On party, they are all in the 65000 range.

[/ QUOTE ]

Holy crap, I just opened both empire and party, nothing is the same. This is the day the fish have been waiting for! I'm glad I am a fish! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[mikeyworm]

tell me this doesn't mean what it could mean.

Yes, and they show different number of people connected,7968 on party and 2827 on Multi

[crego20]

Yeah, same with the limit tables. They look to match numbers across skins(Empire/Euro) though.

[gr8vertical]

Hrmmmm

[KingMedicine]

holy moly.

did they break apart?

the 2000$ NL tables are COMPLETELY NOT CONNECTED on party and empire.

this could change a lot of things.

[Smarty]

This is bad....really bad.

[KingMedicine]

if this is happening with SNGs too, it's going to really screw up my life (12-16 tabling).

how many people log on to intertops to play SNGs besides pros?

[ZeeJustin]

This is really really really bad. I'm seriously freaking out. This will cost me so much money if this is how it's supposed to be.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[KingMedicine]

time to get the resume dusted off.

[Unabridged]

i had an update for party, but no update yet for the skins. i'm hoping the next update will link all the tables

if not /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[mikeyworm]

this is absolutley terrible. but at least now there is no question that i want to be a dr.

[KingMedicine]

[ QUOTE ]
i had an update for party, but no update yet for the skins. i'm hoping the next update will link all the tables

if not /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

not going to happen. the tables are completely unlinked and unconnected. im pray to freakin god that the SNGs are linked or im going to learn how to actually play poker or get a real job.

SNG PROs (multitablers):

If the SNGs are linked, your life is going to change very dramatically. how many people log onto intertops to play SNGs who ARENT pros? The fish come in thru party and if party isnt linked to the skins for SNGs, have fun 4tabling at party.

[bobbyi]

I don't understand exactly what the situation is. Can someone explain? Is every skin different than every other skin (i.e., no shared tables between euro and empire)? Are all the skins the same as each other but different than Party itself? Is anything shared?

[Unabridged]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand exactly what the situation is. Can someone explain? Is every skin different than every other skin (i.e., no shared tables between euro and empire)? Are all the skins the same as each other but different than Party itself? Is anything shared?

[/ QUOTE ]

the skins have the same tables, party has a different set of tables

[KingMedicine]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand exactly what the situation is. Can someone explain? Is every skin different than every other skin (i.e., no shared tables between euro and empire)? Are all the skins the same as each other but different than Party itself? Is anything shared?

[/ QUOTE ]

for cash games: the skins appear to still be linked to each other, but the party games are completely seperate from the games on any of the skins. so, in effect, they are "skins" anymore, there are 2 networks - the "party" network and the "skin" network.

SNGs arent up yet. please let them be linked to party, but im having my doubts.

[Wabby]

to make matters worse they increased the rake as well.

So far I noticed rake at 50/100 tables are now 5 dollars a hand instead of 3 dollars.

[KingMedicine]

you can now 8 table on party.
you can still only 4 table on the skins.

[Jeff W]

[ QUOTE ]
to make matters worse they increased the rake as well.

So far I noticed rake at 50/100 tables are now 5 dollars a hand instead of 3 dollars.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hasn't it always been this way?

[POKhER]

Can the smarter guys explain to us drunk/Confused/Clueless guys what this means?

Does it affect rakeback? The ammount of fish? What does it affect?

P.s. party has updated its software... whats changed>

[Synergistic Explosions]

[ QUOTE ]
to make matters worse they increased the rake as well.

So far I noticed rake at 50/100 tables are now 5 dollars a hand instead of 3 dollars.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like I said in a reply last night, will people accept a rake increase to $5.00 max and say it's OK because Party has a right ot maximize their profit to whatever the market bares?

People said they have a right to. Party exercised that right I guess.

[Unabridged]

[ QUOTE ]

for cash games: the skins appear to still be linked to each other, but the party games are completely seperate from the games on any of the skins. so, in effect, they are "skins" anymore, there are 2 networks - the "party" network and the "skin" network.


[/ QUOTE ]

unless party just held renegotiations with the skins, this is probably just a technical issue. i doubt any of the skins would sign a contract that didn't guarentee them access to all of party's games

[MicroBob]

I thought that the rake on the 50/100 tables was $5-max BEFORE this latest update.
This isn't new.


The bit about the different tables for different skins is interesting and potentially problematic though.

[Smarty]

Anyone know how to import Notes/Buddy Lists between PP and Eurobet?

[mikeyworm]

buddy copy. someone will have a link.

[ihardlyknowher]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone know how to import Notes/Buddy Lists between PP and Eurobet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just copy Notes.txt from one directory to the other, and agree to overwrite existing file.

[Jeff W]

Eurobet:
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/1747/goodtimes6dl.jpg

Me(figuratively, of course):
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/7504/gododgers2or.jpg

[MicroBob]

I highly doubt that this is just a 'technical issue'.

This definitely seems intentional because they know that many of the skins players (and multi-tablers0 are there because they can get to the same tables on party AND get RB on top of that.


Contract wouldn't really matter a whole lot either. Party is holding all the cards (so to speak).
They seem to be severing ties with Empire already (the word 'Empire' is already censored on their site) and are clearly trying to bring as many of the multi-tabling grinders back to their site.


This is NOT an accidental change.

[KramerTM]

Why does this just not mean you will have to play on Party instead of one of the skins? Please excuse my naivete... and my dear Aunt Sally.

[Wabby]

A piece of good advice:

If you own any shares of Empire Poker.... sell .. sell.. sell... and do it now!

[XxGodJrxX]

People that play on the skins rather than PARTY, are typically better players that play with rakeback (or rather, there is a higher percentage of better players). As of right now, Party and the skins are not sharing tables. This means that there is the typical donkfest going on at Party and a bunch of rakeback whores playing against each other at the skins.

Hopefully it doesn't stay this way, but I wouldn't hold my breath. They went out of their way to create new tables at Party, and I doubt it is for "technical" reasons.

[mikeyworm]

rakeback=trading money with TAGs on the 7 empire tables
money=no rakeback on party.

[Nightwish]

[ QUOTE ]
Why does this just not mean you will have to play on Party instead of one of the skins? Please excuse my naivete... and my dear Aunt Sally.

[/ QUOTE ]
It does, and for many of us it means a loss of tens of thousands of dollars in rakeback per year.

[KaneKungFu123]

[ QUOTE ]
This is really really really bad. I'm seriously freaking out. This will cost me so much money if this is how it's supposed to be.

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont get what the big fuss is about? the only thing shitty for me is that i got rakeback on non party skins!

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is really really really bad. I'm seriously freaking out. This will cost me so much money if this is how it's supposed to be.

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont get what the big fuss is about? the only thing shitty for me is that i got rakeback on non party skins!

[/ QUOTE ]

The better you are at poker, the less this impacts you.

[jrz1972]

[ QUOTE ]
Why does this just not mean you will have to play on Party instead of one of the skins? Please excuse my naivete... and my dear Aunt Sally.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, if this change means what it seems to mean, many people who used to play at Euro, Empire, etc. will now have to play at Party. This means the loss of rakeback for those people. That sucks.

[Smarty]

Can someone post a link to this buddy copy program, I searched but could not find it.

[ace_in_the_hole]

WOW, so basically this is the end of rakeback as we know it. We will all be going to party now which is exactly what they wanted. Sucks but I don;t see any other option.

[Nick-Zack]

[ QUOTE ]
Why does this just not mean you will have to play on Party instead of one of the skins? Please excuse my naivete... and my dear Aunt Sally.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here is the simple problem that most of us are having: I get 30% at Eurobet - I get 0% at Party.

[BigBrother]

Nice game selection.

OOF!

[edfurlong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why does this just not mean you will have to play on Party instead of one of the skins? Please excuse my naivete... and my dear Aunt Sally.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here is the simple problem that most of us are having: I get 30% at Eurobet - I get 0% at Party.

[/ QUOTE ]

Along with the fact that any tables after the first four won't be as good.

[Ulysses]

A few suggestions for some of the people most affected by this:

1) Quickly check that the action has completed before dealing the next card.

2) Don't forget to BURN a card before dealing the next card.

3) Use both hands to push the pot to players in one motion.

[mikeyworm]

not a surprise but you can't search across sites anymore now. a player who shows up on a party search does not show up on an empire search.

[Smarty]

This is why I want the buddy copy program, need to see where my fishies are playing.

[XxGodJrxX]

A good player will still win, but will win a lot less than if it was against total donks.

Regardless, I am going to eat you 2+2 fish for BREAKFAST.

[KramerTM]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why does this just not mean you will have to play on Party instead of one of the skins? Please excuse my naivete... and my dear Aunt Sally.

[/ QUOTE ]
It does, and for many of us it means a loss of tens of thousands of dollars in rakeback per year.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow... all this time I had no idea Party does not offer rakeback. I always just thought that I was the only idiot using Rakeback on a skin because I had already signed up for Party at the time. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

So what's the consensus? Is it not worth it to stick around on the skins just to collect on rakeback??

[MicroBob]

There is a very good chance that some decent multi-tabling grinders will try to stick it out on the skins where they get rake-back or will play elsewhere to get rake-back.


If the tables happen to get even fishier on Party (due to fewer TAG's) then I'm perfectly content to play there without rake-back.



I'm also confused by this whole mania over the blackjack thing.
It's not like blackjack on the internet wasn't already available.
I initially thought that this wouldn't impact poker traffic because BJ has been around anyway.

But I think that theory might be incorrect because some people on 2+2 seem to be playing BJ for the first time JUST BECAUSE party now has made it slightly more convenient to do it with a little link in the lobby.
and many of these 2+2'ers seem to be really digging it.

If you were so interested in playing BJ on the internet then why weren't you already?

[Jeff W]

[ QUOTE ]
So what's the consensus? Is it not worth it to stick around on the skins just to collect on rakeback??

[/ QUOTE ]

It's probably time to start taking a serious look at other sites.

[KaneKungFu123]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why does this just not mean you will have to play on Party instead of one of the skins? Please excuse my naivete... and my dear Aunt Sally.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here is the simple problem that most of us are having: I get 30% at Eurobet - I get 0% at Party.

[/ QUOTE ]

Along with the fact that any tables after the first four won't be as good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it too late to go back and learn how to beat higher stake games!!! /images/graemlins/crazy.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/crazy.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[mike l.]

brutal. i read it to gabe over the phone and he said best post ever

[greg nice]

UB has rakeback

I know Party was down for 4 or 5 hours, but currently they have 21,000+ players online while PokerStars has 43,000+. Does anyone know how many players PokerStars usually has on a Saturday night?

[KramerTM]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So what's the consensus? Is it not worth it to stick around on the skins just to collect on rakeback??

[/ QUOTE ]

It's probably time to start taking a serious look at other sites.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is there rakeback at other sites aside from Party skins?

God, just the thought at playing at other sites other than Party/Party Skins makes me nauseous. Anyone ever try playing at Bodog or Full Tilt? Were they serious with those interfaces? Is it that hard to create a smooth, aesthetically-pleasing interface? Anyway... this turned into a mini-rant.

Still haven't signed up for UltimateBet or Stars yet. Hope they got rakeback.

[MicroBob]

The consensus is that many of the players on the skins-sites are multi-tabling pro's who only play there FOR the rake-back.

So, basically, No...most people won't want to play on the skins because they think they'll just be playing at tables that have nothing but 2+2'ers.

Of course...if all the 2+2'ers decide to leave the skins...then the tables on the skins will no longer have those 2+2'ers. Blah blah blah.
The old contradiction "the players there are so good....that none of the good players want to play there anymore."



If the lack of rake-back leads to everyone dispersing to various sites (like Prima or crypto or other RB-type sites) then I think the games at Party could actually wind up being better in the long-run.

This isn't to encourage all you good players to stay at Party though!!
I'm probably wrong and the games on Party will SUCK SUCK SUCK!!
No fish here. No RB anywhere. You'll be better playing somewhere else!!!
Go Away Away Away!!!!!!!

[KaneKungFu123]

so party doesn't have rakeback anymore for anyone or just not you guys?

[beset7]

having it right there at the click of a button is a lot different then having to download an online casino, put some dough on it, etc. When Paradise Poker added blackjack to the poker room a lot of fish were losing their rolls.

[Jeff W]

[ QUOTE ]
UB has rakeback

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically every site except Pokerstars has some form of rakeback.

[beset7]

[ QUOTE ]
so party doesn't have rakeback anymore for anyone or just not you guys?

[/ QUOTE ]

its impossible to find a party rakeback deal at this point. thats why all of us break-even players were making a good living multi-tabling the skins with fat rakeback deals.

[KramerTM]

[ QUOTE ]

This isn't to encourage all you good players to stay at Party though!!
I'm probably wrong and the games on Party will SUCK SUCK SUCK!!
No fish here. No RB anywhere. You'll be better playing somewhere else!!!
Go Away Away Away!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Subtle, Bob. Subtle. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
UB has rakeback

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically every site except Pokerstars has some form of rakeback.

[/ QUOTE ]
Paradise and Pacific are pretty major sites and neither offers rb of any form.

[Jeff W]

[ QUOTE ]
Paradise and Pacific are pretty major sites and neither offers rb of any form.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh... well I won't say anything more. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

P.S. Anyone who PMs me about this will be ignored.

[partygirluk]

I would expect a move as big as this to have been announced to the London Stock Exchange.

[KramerTM]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why does this just not mean you will have to play on Party instead of one of the skins? Please excuse my naivete... and my dear Aunt Sally.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here is the simple problem that most of us are having: I get 30% at Eurobet - I get 0% at Party.

[/ QUOTE ]

Along with the fact that any tables after the first four won't be as good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Confused... /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[otctrader]

Problem is the tables, in theory, shouldn't get fishier on Party in the long run since the player base will merge over time, and those individuals who were slightly profitable due to rakeback will turn into losers, thus leaving only the best players.

In the short run you may see some more fishiness as the skin/rakeback grinders figure out what to do, but that will dissipate, and go full circle to a less fishy environment.

Please say it isn't so.

[Losing all]

Any drug testing advice? Criminal record a problem?

[MicroBob]

click on the link for the classified ads at the top of the page.

or go to rakerebatereview dot com or one of those types of sites.

There are about nine-zillion sites where you can get rakeback.
Pretty much ANYWHERE except Stars (and I think Paradise and pacific also).

Sites where you can get rake-back include:
crypto (interpoker, pokerplax, etc), prima (bet-holdem, etc), tiger (??), ub, truepoker, etc etc etc.

RB is all over the place....and at some of these places you don't even have to worry about it being against their terms and conditions.

[psyduck]

Eurobet seems to be fine now. ??

[lastcoyote]

How long can the skins stay in business if all the TAGS stop playing there? No to be one to cry "FIRE!" but...

Do those of you with significant $$$ at the skins feel comfortable with your money there? One or several of them cold fold up tent pretty quickly I believe.

[TylerD]

Looks like I made the right decision in not quiting my job!

[KramerTM]

[ QUOTE ]
A few suggestions for some of the people most affected by this:

1) Quickly check that the action has completed before dealing the next card.

2) Don't forget to BURN a card before dealing the next card.

3) Use both hands to push the pot to players in one motion.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

[POKhER]

did someone just say
POKER IS GOING TO DIE ? No? im sure someone said it. Ah maybe im hearing things. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
A few suggestions for some of the people most affected by this:

1) Quickly check that the action has completed before dealing the next card.

2) Don't forget to BURN a card before dealing the next card.

3) Use both hands to push the pot to players in one motion.

[/ QUOTE ]


winner, lololol

[BigBrother]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why does this just not mean you will have to play on Party instead of one of the skins? Please excuse my naivete... and my dear Aunt Sally.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here is the simple problem that most of us are having: I get 30% at Eurobet - I get 0% at Party.

[/ QUOTE ]

Along with the fact that any tables after the first EIGHT won't be as good.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[itsmarty]

There's a link to Buddy Copy here, under software:

http://urbankermit.com/php/modules/mylinks/

Martin

[XxGodJrxX]

Are the majority of Party stockholders online poker players? I would not think so, and doubt that people outside of online poker will understand why the change is big.

On a sidenote, after thinking about it a little bit, I think that Party has made a great move. Not for the -MGR whores like us who play on the skins for RB, but for Party. They will make an assload of money thanks to adding blackjack/splitting up the tables.

[duke44]

You would expect it to be announced to the customers too, but it's not really Party's style to communicate. They are kind of like Hitler without the people skills.

I think they might actually be doing this, I can already smell the desperation across the pond.

[Voltron87]

so all this means is that there will be no rakeback for people who want the party games, no?

[partygirluk]

[ QUOTE ]
Are the majority of Party stockholders online poker players? I would not think so, and doubt that people outside of online poker will understand why the change is big.

[/ QUOTE ]

Companies listed on the Stock Exchange are required by law to announce any major changes in their business to the stock market before anyone else.

[MicroBob]

it's not like they have a huge overhead or lots of costs involved.


When I signed-up on Stars (first time I had ever played) in Feb, 2003 I was AMAZED that they had up to 1,500 players during weekend peak hours.
AMAZING!!

They were probably not losing that much money even then (and perhaps were even profitable even as small as that).



Lots of live poker-rooms survive with 10 tables or fewer.

Even allowing for whatever percentage the skins still have to give back to Party I would think that these sites can still be profitable with very few players.


You cut the numbers of players these skins get down to 25%...and it might still be more than what they had a little over 2 years ago.


In short - a site does NOT need over 10k players to be profitable.

[dark_horse]

[ QUOTE ]
Looks like I made the right decision in not quiting my job!

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks like I picked the wrong night to stop sniffing glue.

[Ogre]

[censored] this i am moving the PS

the golden days are officially over

[La Brujita]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Are the majority of Party stockholders online poker players? I would not think so, and doubt that people outside of online poker will understand why the change is big.

[/ QUOTE ]

Companies listed on the Stock Exchange are required by law to announce any major changes in their business to the stock market before anyone else.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly why I am so confused. It doesn't make any sense from a legal perspective. At least not to me.

[TylerD]

[ QUOTE ]
The consensus is that many of the players on the skins-sites are multi-tabling pro's who only play there FOR the rake-back.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whilst this is true there are some fish who use the skins. Remember that InterTops is one of the biggest sportsbooks out there, Coral/Eurobet has a huge B&M based operation (they have recently been purchased by Gala) and Empire have to be doing something right as they have been floated.

The skins site will have significantly less fish, but won't be totally devoid of them.

[smartalecc5]

Looks like I'll be playing somewhere else. Farewell partypoker skins.......

[ QUOTE ]
it's not like they have a huge overhead or lots of costs involved.


When I signed-up on Stars (first time I had ever played) in Feb, 2003 I was AMAZED that they had up to 1,500 players during weekend peak hours.
AMAZING!!

They were probably not losing that much money even then (and perhaps were even profitable even as small as that).



Lots of live poker-rooms survive with 10 tables or fewer.

Even allowing for whatever percentage the skins still have to give back to Party I would think that these sites can still be profitable with very few players.


You cut the numbers of players these skins get down to 25%...and it might still be more than what they had a little over 2 years ago.


In short - a site does NOT need over 10k players to be profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just curious about this b/c I have no idea how the relationshipo between Empire/Eurobet/Party works. Why would they pay Party if the games aren't the same?

[Ogre]

i hope party dies

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Companies listed on the Stock Exchange are required by law to announce any major changes in their business to the stock market before anyone else.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly why I am so confused. It doesn't make any sense from a legal perspective. At least not to me.

[/ QUOTE ]
How is this a "major change" to Party's business? I thought the skins constituted only a small portion of their playerbase, and they haven't removed the skins, they've just put them on separate tables.

[ QUOTE ]
A few suggestions for some of the people most affected by this:

1) Quickly check that the action has completed before dealing the next card.

2) Don't forget to BURN a card before dealing the next card.

3) Use both hands to push the pot to players in one motion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes very clever. But for those of us that have no apirations to become great poker players, and do this just to make a little $$$ on the side, this really really sucks.

[Ghazban]

You guys are taking this too seriously. I'm playing Eurobet right now and its plenty fishy.

[ryanghall]

Maybe at your level... but take a look at the 400 and 600 NL games Ghaz.

There's a grand total of 1 table running on Empire, lots on Party.

Ryan

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
Just curious about this b/c I have no idea how the relationshipo between Empire/Eurobet/Party works. Why would they pay Party if the games aren't the same?

[/ QUOTE ]
Party is providing the software, running the servers, handling the money, making the poker decisions about what games to spread, etc., etc. If you are a skin, Party is doing almost everything to run your business for you; you just handle marketing and some customer support.

[vegasbob]

time to reconsider those bonus offers they gave us a few days ago

[Ghazban]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe at your level... but take a look at the 400 and 600 NL games Ghaz.

There's a grand total of 1 table running on Empire, lots on Party.

Ryan

[/ QUOTE ]

I see people from my buddy list in the 400 games, too.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just curious about this b/c I have no idea how the relationshipo between Empire/Eurobet/Party works. Why would they pay Party if the games aren't the same?

[/ QUOTE ]
Party is providing the software, running the servers, handling the money, making the poker decisions about what games to spread, etc., etc. If you are a skin, Party is doing almost everything to run your business for you; you just handle marketing and some customer support.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why does Party even do this?

Post deleted by Mike Haven

[XxGodJrxX]

I was datamining some Eurobet 2/4 tables, and I did not find ONE player with donkish stats. I may try 1/2 six max to clear the Tiffany bonus tonight.

[ QUOTE ]
time to reconsider those bonus offers they gave us a few days ago

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL I was thinking the same thing. This is truly a Michael Corleone type move by Party.

[_And1_]

[ QUOTE ]
Whilst this is true there are some fish who use the skins. Remember that InterTops is one of the biggest sportsbooks out there, Coral/Eurobet has a huge B&M based operation (they have recently been purchased by Gala) and Empire have to be doing something right as they have been floated.

[/ QUOTE ]

All true, but for middle-highstakes players there wont be that many tables to choose from even thou there are fish on these skins too...

[goodguy_1]

[ QUOTE ]
If the lack of rake-back leads to everyone dispersing to various sites (like Prima or crypto or other RB-type sites) then I think the games at Party could actually wind up being better in the long-run.


[/ QUOTE ]
add in the fact that many TAGS who got by on subpar winrates including rakeback will no longer be playing for a living.
Luckily for me I dont rely much on rakeback at all anymore. I spread my action over half a dozen sites.

Many people in the biz are screwed hugely by this specifically:
-affiliates
-marginal pros. Those newbies pros who were heavily susidized by rakeback and needed rakeback to make it work are going to drop out of Party's pool of players. I would conservatively guess that would immediately be at least 25% of pros on Party.

Alot of marginal pros are going to get busted in the next few months if they arent careful.

[Jeff W]

Donkeys of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your money.

[ QUOTE ]
You guys are taking this too seriously. I'm playing Eurobet right now and its plenty fishy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Time will tell. But my guess is that the 2+2:fish ratio at Empire and Eurobet is not nearly what we're used to.

[ QUOTE ]
Donkeys of the world unite!

[/ QUOTE ]

Gold

[KramerTM]

[ QUOTE ]
Alot of marginal pros are going to get busted in the next few months if they arent careful.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just what I was thinking. I bet a lot of these pros undestimated how important rakeback was to their winrate.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
how many people log on to intertops to play SNGs besides pros?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, it's hard to imagine why the casino/cardroom division attached to one of the largest online sportsbooks would attract any gamblers (/images/graemlins/confused.gif?).

[TheNoodleMan]

party has a freaking sidebet bar on games now! you can bet on the flop color! WTF?

[goodguy_1]

[ QUOTE ]
I would expect a move as big as this to have been announced to the London Stock Exchange.


[/ QUOTE ]
you would think so!

In the UK is there an equivalent to our RegFD here in the States?

The stock may rally initially-but really this just clarifies how bogus Party's Total Player numbers were from the start.

PRTY is going to be cut in half with the next year to below 50. I also see major shareholder lawsuits coming.

Their player counts and estmates of growth have been bogus from the getgo. Anybody that understood the segmentation of their revenues saw this coming.

[XxGodJrxX]

If the marginal pros start busting out, then it could be that this is simply a recession. The pros bust out, fish percentage rises, everybody is happy.

Correction, everybody is happy but the people that relied on rakeback to be winning players. They go broke and work in construction. Darwinism at its best right here.

[Synergistic Explosions]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would expect a move as big as this to have been announced to the London Stock Exchange.


[/ QUOTE ]
you would thinki so!

The stock may rally intitially-but really this just clarifies how bogus Party's Total Player numnbers were from the start.

PRTY is going to be cut in half with the next year to below 50. I also see major shareholder lawsuits coming.

Their player counts and estmates of growth have been bogus from the getgo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you explain that in more detail? Very interesting.

[La Brujita]

WTF you can make sidebets on the flop color now on Party?

WTF WTF

[Voltron87]

has this been confirmed as permanent by party/skins yet?

[mbpoker]

Stars doesn't have rakeback, but the rake there is much lower than Party's - especially for $0.50/$1.00 to $5/$10.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
WTF you can make sidebets on the flop color now on Party?

WTF WTF

[/ QUOTE ]
If this is real, can someone post a pic?

[KingMedicine]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
WTF you can make sidebets on the flop color now on Party?

WTF WTF

[/ QUOTE ]
If this is real, can someone post a pic?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.partypoker.com/games/how_to_play/side_bets.html

[mbpoker]

Empire is also on London stock market and this change may well kill Empire.

[Voltron87]

ok, in the past i thought everyone was overreacting to party and just whining.

but these people are [censored] crazy, how can crackheads run such a successful company?

[KingMedicine]

[ QUOTE ]
Empire is also on London stock market and this change may well kill Empire.

[/ QUOTE ]

short.empire.quick

[Crimson]

It seems to me that empire is doomed. Im waiting a couple days, and then ima cash out and by into party. Good by rakeback...

[XxGodJrxX]

[ QUOTE ]
WTF you can make sidebets on the flop color now on Party?

WTF WTF

[/ QUOTE ]

That would be awesome. I think we are going to need "Small Stakes Choosing Suits on the River for Advanced Players".

GET CRACKING SKLANSKY!!!

[beset7]

http://img270.imageshack.us/img270/4069/sidebetsss26sy.jpg

[XxGodJrxX]

[ QUOTE ]
http://img270.imageshack.us/img270/4069/sidebetsss26sy.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

At first I thought it was a joke, but now I can safely say that there is, in fact, at least one god.

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
has this been confirmed as permanent by party/skins yet?

[/ QUOTE ]

guys, they would have confirmed this if it was for real real. i think everyone is overreacting a bit, im going to wait until the dust settles.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
WTF you can make sidebets on the flop color now on Party?

WTF WTF

[/ QUOTE ]
If this is real, can someone post a pic?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.partypoker.com/games/how_to_play/side_bets.html

[/ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /images/graemlins/shocked.gif /images/graemlins/shocked.gif /images/graemlins/shocked.gif /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[vilemerchant]

Before we all go out and commit ritual suicide maybe we should consider the possibility that this was such a large update for the 8 tabling, side-bets and other crap that it's just taking time for the skins to be updated. By tomorrow we might have skin updates and all the games linked again.

[greg nice]

[ QUOTE ]
Before we all go out and commit ritual suicide maybe we should consider the possibility that this was such a large update for the 8 tabling, side-bets and other crap that it's just taking time for the skins to be updated. By tomorrow we might have skin updates and all the games linked again.

[/ QUOTE ]

everyone thought that a month ago when 50/100 and 100/200 were added.

the next day came and the skins were still shiit outta luck

[Evan]

I can't find any tables with sidebets. can someone point me to one?

[Vlight]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't find any tables with sidebets. can someone point me to one?

[/ QUOTE ]

the $30 sngs for example

[wall_st]

Man these games are fishy as hell. Im trying to get as much money in party as i can right now.

[TylerD]

AWESOME!

[Gotmilk]

I don't fully understand--though party doesn't get rakeback, affiliates still get paid. It seems like they will just be losing tons of volume from players who used to play on the skins that they were making money off of when those players move to other sites? Please explain this to me!

[yellowjack]

[ QUOTE ]
http://img270.imageshack.us/img270/4069/sidebetsss26sy.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

OMFG. [censored] party getting better access to fishs' money, god damnit.

For those interested in the EV, they're offering 8 to 1 but the chances are 8.5 to 1. So for every $1 that is wagered, party makes +$0.05(8823) /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[XxGodJrxX]

I tried calculating the EV for betting $2 on any suit. I am getting -$.08 for every bet.

Of course, Party is rigged, so whip out your Pattern Mappers and get rich. I know I will /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Losing all]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
http://img270.imageshack.us/img270/4069/sidebetsss26sy.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

OMFG. [censored] party getting better access to fishs' money, god damnit.

For those interested in the EV, they're offering 8 to 1 but the chances are 8.5 to 1. So for every $1 that is wagered, party makes +$0.05(8823) /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


Now you can hedge sooted hans!!

[mowz]

If you notice, when first starting Party there is an update. When first starting Empire there is not. As was stated on the previous page, it is probably taking a while to get this update to the other skins. However if you feel that I am in error and your rakeback will dissapear, please take your TAG butt to prima.
kthxbai.

[UATrewqaz]

I spent the whole day watching football and apparently missed the apocolypse...

Wow, just wow... The BJ and side bets is just a way for fish to give their money to party, rather than to good players... bad medicine.

[Gotmilk]

also has anyone checked if sit and gos are linked or not?

[goodguy_1]

[ QUOTE ]
short.empire.quick

[/ QUOTE ]

haha the stock is going to open down probably 20%-30% maybe more .Good luck getting a legal short sale off.
If the stock isnt halted pre-market and you had access to Instinet you may be able to get off a short...what are the pre-market trading rules in the UK ?I have no idea. I traded for a living for 5 years..pre/post market was my battleground:

Lodon Stock Exchange-EOL (http://www.londonstockexchange.com/en-gb/pricesnews/prices/system/detailedprices.htm?ti=EOL)

Any body have any links to a good UK stock chat board?

[XxGodJrxX]

Prima sucks donkey balls. I am going to start my OWN Pokerroom. I am going to call it "PokerSpot 2". I'm going to offer 1000% rakeback and a $10000 dollar bonus. Would that make you guys happy?

[JayCo]

[ QUOTE ]
also has anyone checked if sit and gos are linked or not?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sadly, they are not linked.

[Kumubou]

[ QUOTE ]
For those interested in the EV, they're offering 8 to 1 but the chances are 8.5 to 1. So for every $1 that is wagered, party makes +$0.05(8823) /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you factoring in the player's hand? If you have two cards of the opposite color (say, two clubs) the odds of having a red flop are 26/50 * 25/49 * 24*48, right? Which is 13.26(5306)%, and a 8:1 payout would require odds of 12.5% to be breakeven. So now it seems like a +.06 edge, unless I am missing something (you do not have to take the sidebet every hand, right?)

-K

[jnalpak]

All my "buddies" are on party i just found out /images/graemlins/frown.gif


search wont find any of them!!!!
waaaaaaaaa i want a cookie

[POKhER]

lol that sounds good to me, hope your maths are right.

[Voltron87]

i think you have to do it before you get your cards. i guarantee that theres no way to win moeny at it though. party thought this through.

[mikeyworm]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For those interested in the EV, they're offering 8 to 1 but the chances are 8.5 to 1. So for every $1 that is wagered, party makes +$0.05(8823) /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you factoring in the player's hand? If you have two cards of the opposite color (say, two clubs) the odds of having a red flop are 26/50 * 25/49 * 24*48, right? Which is 13.26(5306)%, and a 8:1 payout would require odds of 12.5% to be breakeven. So now it seems like a +.06 edge, unless I am missing something (you do not have to take the sidebet every hand, right?)

-K

[/ QUOTE ]

Party says: "Side Bets that are placed will be valid for the next hand that is being dealt. " from http://www.partypoker.com/games/how_to_play/side_bets.html

[Kumubou]

[ QUOTE ]
Party says: "Side Bets that are placed will be valid for the next hand that is being dealt. " from http://www.partypoker.com/games/how_to_play/side_bets.html

[/ QUOTE ]
Nuts. It looks like Party is dumb only when it comes to other people's money. :|

-K

[yellowjack]

Voltron is right

"Once your color and amount have been chosen, your Side Bet will be on for the next hand that is dealt. You can exit your Side Bet at any time, before the next hand is dealt"

So they are saying you have to remove your sidebet before the hands are dealt, which implies you must have put your sidebet in way before your next hand is dealt.

[XxGodJrxX]

I haven't tried it, but I am assuming that you place the sidebet before the cards are dealt. It COULD be +EV if that was not the case, especially if you are playing with "friends".

[popniklas]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar till:</font><hr />
I tried calculating the EV for betting $2 on any suit. I am getting -$.08 for every bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah... but the EV for betting, say, black if both your cards are red must be higher. And if you can see more than two cards, at some point there is a possibility of getting +EV if many of the cards are of the same color.

I predict that PartyGaming will be busted by colluding colorcounting M.I.T. students.


edit: whoops, I should have read the entire thread before posting. Too bad they didn't make that mistake... so much for hedging suited hands /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[JoeBoo]

Where's our pal Mike O'Malley, he should be able to shed some light on this.

[blackaces13]

[ QUOTE ]

Wow, just wow... The BJ and side bets is just a way for fish to give their money to party, rather than to good players... bad medicine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly, now all the idiots will bust a whole lot quicker and give more of their moeny directly to Party. This is a black day for online poker.

[mosch]

They're offering 8 for 1, not 8 to 1.

[JoeBoo]

[ QUOTE ]
They're offering 8 for 1, not 8 to 1.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the difference?

[bobbyi]

I find it interesting that PokerNow appears to be on the "skins" network rather than the "Party" network. I thought they had some closer relationship with Party and were sort of equivalent to Party itself.

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Wow, just wow... The BJ and side bets is just a way for fish to give their money to party, rather than to good players... bad medicine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly, now all the idiots will bust a whole lot quicker and give more of their moeny directly to Party. This is a black day for online poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems more like the black day for party poker. Them adding that stupid blackjack link on every table was enough to make me not play their anymore.

[Shillx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They're offering 8 for 1, not 8 to 1.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the difference?

[/ QUOTE ]

8 for 1 = 7 to 1

Just a ploy to confuse people into thinking that they are making better bets (they do it at craps too)

[Jim Morrison]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They're offering 8 for 1, not 8 to 1.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the difference?

[/ QUOTE ]

You serious?

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They're offering 8 for 1, not 8 to 1.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the difference?

[/ QUOTE ]

8 for 1 = 7 to 1

Just a ploy to confuse people into thinking that they are making better bets (they do it at craps too)

[/ QUOTE ]

My quick math says that's a 15% edge on the sidebet for the house. Sick.

[yellowjack]

JoeBoo's question is legitimate.

The 8 to 1 vs. 7 to 1 is the difference between a losing and winning bet.

[Jim Morrison]

[ QUOTE ]
JoeBoo's question is legitimate.

The 8 to 1 vs. 7 to 1 is the difference between a losing and winning bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah no [censored]. I just figured everyone here at the brains to know the difference.

[Greg J]

[ QUOTE ]
You would expect it to be announced to the customers too, but it's not really Party's style to communicate. They are kind of like Hitler without the people skills.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ladies and gentlemen, we have our first Hitler reference of the thread!

[Schwartzy61]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
JoeBoo's question is legitimate.

The 8 to 1 vs. 7 to 1 is the difference between a losing and winning bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah no [censored]. I just figured everyone here at the brains to know the difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not everyone is a gambling degenerate...

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You would expect it to be announced to the customers too, but it's not really Party's style to communicate. They are kind of like Hitler without the people skills.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ladies and gentlemen, we have our first Hitler reference of the thread!

[/ QUOTE ]

I almost went the Nazi route in a post but I remembered The Daily Show segment from a couple weeks ago and talked myself out of it.

[RaiNz]

8 FOR 1 = 7 TO 1

[Homer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
http://img270.imageshack.us/img270/4069/sidebetsss26sy.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

OMFG. [censored] party getting better access to fishs' money, god damnit.

For those interested in the EV, they're offering 8 to 1 but the chances are 8.5 to 1. So for every $1 that is wagered, party makes +$0.05(8823) /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


Now you can hedge sooted hans!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoah, whoah, whoah. Couldn't this easily be exploited by getting in a game with some buddies and sharing your card colors? There must be something I'm missing.

[GuyOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
JoeBoo's question is legitimate.

The 8 to 1 vs. 7 to 1 is the difference between a losing and winning bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah no [censored]. I just figured everyone here at the brains to know the difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not everyone can do basic arithmetic

[/ QUOTE ].

GoT

The carnage! I'm only one man! I need help!

[Homer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
http://img270.imageshack.us/img270/4069/sidebetsss26sy.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

OMFG. [censored] party getting better access to fishs' money, god damnit.

For those interested in the EV, they're offering 8 to 1 but the chances are 8.5 to 1. So for every $1 that is wagered, party makes +$0.05(8823) /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


Now you can hedge sooted hans!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoah, whoah, whoah. Couldn't this easily be exploited by getting in a game with some buddies and sharing your card colors? There must be something I'm missing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, it's for the next hand. Nevermind.

[GuyOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
http://img270.imageshack.us/img270/4069/sidebetsss26sy.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

OMFG. [censored] party getting better access to fishs' money, god damnit.

For those interested in the EV, they're offering 8 to 1 but the chances are 8.5 to 1. So for every $1 that is wagered, party makes +$0.05(8823) /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


Now you can hedge sooted hans!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoah, whoah, whoah. Couldn't this easily be exploited by getting in a game with some buddies and sharing your card colors? There must be something I'm missing.

[/ QUOTE ]
Evan and I already had this scheme ready to go, but they don't let you side bet after the cards are dealt. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

GoT

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
Whoah, whoah, whoah. Couldn't this easily be exploited by getting in a game with some buddies and sharing your card colors? There must be something I'm missing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see a 2+2 table starting up soon like the Jackpot tables for this exact thing...

[AleoMagus]

[ QUOTE ]
I find it interesting that PokerNow appears to be on the "skins" network rather than the "Party" network. I thought they had some closer relationship with Party and were sort of equivalent to Party itself.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really know anything about Party's relationship with pokernow, but this could be a way for them to stay in the 'old' network with some of their players. That or they are not as closely tied to pokerNow as thought.

Regards
Brad S

[leehrat]

the sidebet will also slow down the games considerably. just another benefit of this change /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
the sidebet will also slow down the games considerably. just another benefit of this change /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. They have an interesting math problem in figuring out if it's more +EV to remove it to speed up the game.

Perhaps allow the sidebet only if observing a game, or when on a waiting list?

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is really really really bad. I'm seriously freaking out. This will cost me so much money if this is how it's supposed to be.

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont get what the big fuss is about? the only thing shitty for me is that i got rakeback on non party skins!

[/ QUOTE ]

The better you are at poker, the less this impacts you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey ElD, what if you're absolutely awesome at poker, but not rolled for the higher limits, meaning RB would have a big effect on your income? Then would it matter?

P.S. Blow me.

I know you're king of the hill around here, but seriously man, have some compassion towards your fellow pros who are being hurt by this?

[naphand]

Compassion.. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

Since when do poker players have the right to demand compassion when their entire game plan is designed around crushing every player they meet and extracting the max. $$ from them?

Maybe you think this is "unfair". I call BS.

Rakeback was never built into the system devised by Party, it was a manufactured cash cow that seems to have been milked dry. Welcome to the real world: Party exist to take your money, which they do.

Other sites make "rakeback" payments direct to players and give increased rewards to "affiliates" who bring in regular players. These are the sites you need to be supporting to encourage marketing practices that reward your regular play (PokerChamps is one that comes to mind, I believe others may operate similar systems).

What did you expect from a company that dominates the market yet cannot muster any kind of customer service and still runs crappy software? Party have always been greedy/lazy tossers, now lets see if the so-called free-market forces you yanks so adore will force them to provide rewards or lose their customer base.

[wheelz]

more people should really play on pokerchamps /images/graemlins/frown.gif they also have the best software online.

[MisterKing]

I hope next month's 2+2 internet mag will feature some level-headed and in-depth discussion of exactly what has changed, what the likely implications are, and what the most likely outcomes are for each of the "new" networks and they players who utilize them. At the risk of being repetitive, one thing seems painfully clear: Party is making a concerted effort to increase its yield per player via sidebets and BJ, and unless they bring in some new monster donators to the player pool, this change means less $$$ going into the winning players' poker economy.

Quite frankly I am afraid to have my money on any of these othersites now. I emailed multipoker askign what had happened and they acted as if nothing had happened or changed. Also with all these deposit bonuses,like the $1500 match bonus this month, it looks like the same behavior a site might have before it ceased cashouts and ranoff with the money. Didn't Dutch Boyde do something like that once?

[hobbsmann]

A couple of emails from my rakeback provider (maybe there is hope):

"Sender: -
Subject: Party Poker Update
Message: [Message] We have secured a deal at party poker. Now we are working on what the rules are for exisisting players and seeing what % we can get. Please dont start playing there yet, as the rules MIGHT be you can switch over if you had an idle account that hasnt been played in awhile.

We are working as hard and fast as we can, but the wheels turn slow on the weekend.

Hang in there"

"Sender: -
Subject: Empire &amp; Party Poker Update Part 3
Message: [Message] Ok, here's the latest.. Sorry for all the emails but i really want to keep you all updated.

Haven't finalized the final deal at party, but its coming. Its sunday morning so its hard. But its coming!

Empire wants to retain your buisness, so in an attempt to keep you playing at Empire Poker, everyone at rakeupdate.com will get a 3% rake increase.. So at least thats something. They gave me the raise this morning"

[LondonBroil]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
http://img270.imageshack.us/img270/4069/sidebetsss26sy.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

At first I thought it was a joke, but now I can safely say that there is, in fact, at least one god.

[/ QUOTE ]

I log into my account and I have a $0.71 balance. Open up a table and place my first .25 side bet on black. Flop comes 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif. Cha-Ching!

[somapopper]

[ QUOTE ]
A couple of emails from my rakeback provider (maybe there is hope):

"Sender: -
Subject: Party Poker Update
Message: [Message] We have secured a deal at party poker. Now we are working on what the rules are for exisisting players and seeing what % we can get. Please dont start playing there yet, as the rules MIGHT be you can switch over if you had an idle account that hasnt been played in awhile.

We are working as hard and fast as we can, but the wheels turn slow on the weekend.

Hang in there"

"Sender: -
Subject: Empire &amp; Party Poker Update Part 3
Message: [Message] Ok, here's the latest.. Sorry for all the emails but i really want to keep you all updated.

Haven't finalized the final deal at party, but its coming. Its sunday morning so its hard. But its coming!

Empire wants to retain your buisness, so in an attempt to keep you playing at Empire Poker, everyone at rakeupdate.com will get a 3% rake increase.. So at least thats something. They gave me the raise this morning"

[/ QUOTE ]

That's right guys, please hold off playing at party until you're offered a rakeback deal...

please?