Question about calling raises at low limits with small pocket pairs

[FreakDaddy]

How much does the 5/10 rule really apply at small stakes, especially 25nl party? Aren't the implied odds so big on thee sites that's it's almost mandatory to call this raise with a small pocket? Is there a cut-off point like 77's or above call, etc... ? I've always been unsure of this completely. I mean standard math says that if I'm calling 15% of my stack and I'm only ~8% to flop a set, and I estimate all the times I won't get action + the times I'm set over set etc, that's it's not +EV. What adjustments can you make and what rules can you apply at these stakes though?


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

Button ($24.15)
Hero ($21.94)
BB ($14.90)
UTG ($12)
<font color="#C00000">UTG+1 ($103)</font>
<font color="#C00000">MP1 ($6.40)</font>
MP2 ($12.95)
MP3 ($52.18)
CO ($3.90)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif. Hero posts a blind of $0.10.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to $1.5</font>, MP1 calls $1.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls $1.50, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero??, BB calls $1.25.

[Skuzzy]

the 5-10 rule can be applied pretty much with any pair. Theres ~10.75% chance of hitting your set and an additional .75% of hitting a full house (not including a board set).

It's a small margin if your looking at a raise 10% of your stack so the "rule" needs to take into account the liklihood of getting paid. So is the raiser only raising with AA and KK and weak enough to call push on the flop, or is he loose and reckless enough to commit his stack before realising he's been out flopped?

The rule states 'between 5 and 10 percent use your judgement'. If the riase you face is only 5% of your stack (and his) then you have a massive overlay for the times he outdraws you or fails to play. IN the 25NL game the general quality of players and game texture is such that you can happily limp 22 in EP call a raise if it comes and fold to a miss and in the lng run you will show profit (i have m own stats to back this up)

The rule is really a way to see when your implied odds make a normally loose call an absolute auto-call. At 5% of stacks with a raiser and acaller ahead and position SC's become auto cals too.

The other key point then is that the rule, althoug applicable to pairs in any position (at least at the lower limits) is specifically aimed at allowing you to recognise good long shot calls when you have position over the raiser and any callers. The rule was originally stated as "when contemplating a call because your position is good....." etc.

Hope this helps - I only figured it out relatively recently so I may be a bit off but this approach works for me.

[Skuzzy]

... your example is an easy call but the short stack bother me. The other players do make up for it. Being OOP in't a big deal with a small pair, you check/fold a miss and pot bet when you hit and hope for a re-raise you can push on. You might try a check raise if the original raiser is a heavy continuation bet addict, or just crazy aggro.

OTHERs MAY DO IT DIFFERENTLY, I am often corrected in this forum /images/graemlins/wink.gif