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View Full Version : Value of TPTK with 50BB, Mandalay Bay 2/4 NL


10-08-2005, 11:34 AM
Playing at Mandalay Bay, 2/4NL, fixed 200 buy-in.

A couple of considerations: (i) Lots of fish with big stacks, (ii) With 50BB, TPTK style hands presumably go up in value ... by how much?

Two hands, comments appreciated:

Hand 1:

Just joined the table, with $200. Assume no player reads.

I raise 1 UTG limper to $20 with AQs from MP. Cut-off and button calls, big blind calls, and limper calls.

[Probably of no significance ... as I announce raise, someone says "uh oh, someone with a real hand" and we all laugh.]

Flop QJ6 rainbow, $80. BB checks quickly, UTG bets $80. I look left: c-o is about to muck, button is thinking hard with an agonized expression on his face. I look right. No read whatsoever on UTG (typical).

Easy push? Easy fold?

Hand 2:

Same table, 10-20 hands later ... I have AKo. MP has $200 which is the effective stack size for the hand.

MP raises to $15. I reraise to $65. Folds round. MP thinks for ~10s then calls. No read on MP, though he seems bright enough from listening to him talk.

Flop Q82. $136 in the pot (I have $135). MP checks quickly.

Is this an easy push? (NB I thought so, after the hand.) I check. Turn is a king. MP frowns very slightly, then checks again. Check behind and call the river?

10-08-2005, 02:27 PM
Hand 1 seems like a really tough decision. Probably push or fold. I'd probably push, but I'm confused by the shallow stacks.

Hand 2, why do you think the flop is a push, but the turn is a check? Flop bet should depend on your read on how likely he is going to fold to a continuation bet. And I would definitely bet that turn once you hit. If you get raised big, you know you are probably behind since you only have 1 pair, but villain hasn't indicated any strength, so you have no reason to be afraid of this. Put your money in when you think you are ahead.

10-08-2005, 02:44 PM
Hand 1 looks like a good spot to get your chips in. What are you afraid of? 66 is the only worry here, with small chance of QJ. Just the fact that he could have KQ should be good enough to put him all in. He might also have a straight draw or some other random crap (AJ, AT, who knows)

Hand 2 I don't mind a flop check. I suppose it's opponent dependent, but it seems there's a good chance he's not folding JJ-99, so I like to take a free card

Once you hit the K, I don't see much point in waiting for the river to bet, so because I'm lazy I bet the turn. If you think he's a call station, put him on the half now half later payment plan.

10-08-2005, 11:44 PM
Thanks for the couple of comments so far.

A few further thoughts on hand 2:

I liked the idea of pushing the flop, since that seems very likely to knock off a decent player with JJ-99 after I decided to reraise pre-flop and represent AA-QQ.

(Pre-flop is probably dubious in fact? I'm reducing the effect of my later position. And I should be able to get my small stack in anyway if I hit.)

Anyway thinking about the flop some more after reading the responses, it's only +EV if my fold equity against these JJ-99 really is high and/or I'm fairly certain he doesn't have AA/KK... (and too high variance for holiday poker!) ... so probably the check behind was better, fair enough.

But once I hit my card on the turn, I'm way ahead or way behind, no? He either has AA-QQ or JJ-99. I can't really see the value in a bet - what's he calling with that I'm beating? (Plus any turn bet pot commits me).

So I think checking the turn and calling any river is better? That way I might lose less against a value betting AA-QQ, and possibly get a mistake bet from JJ or TT.