Whose Preflop Reccomendations Do You Use?

[12AX7]

Hi Everyone,
Been going through the process of trying to get my preflop game together and was curious whose reccomendations you prefer for various online levels at the various online cardrooms.

SSHE, HPFAP?, Lee Jones, Hilger, something else?

I realize Ed M's statement is (parphrased) "just pick one, use it, adjust it based on game conditons... don't call raises with offsuit junk". Which is no doubt valid, since all of poker is pretty much and "it depends" sort of situational analysis.

Thought I have to admit, there are time when Ed writes, "...which is clearly a error..." or "...way to profitable..." etc. and I wonder how those facts were determined, exactly. (Experience, monte carlo sims, plain old probability calcs?)

I'd really like to be able to look at a hand, and a situation and be able to determine that myself, rather than simply storing as many of those tidbits between my ears as I can.

So anyway, what are you folks finding effective at various limits and cardrooms?

[flair1239]

You should be looking to get away from the charts. Just learn the concepts and make your decisions from there.

To answer your question thought, SSH has the best discussion of pre-flop concepts regarding the play of various groups of hands, that I have seen.

[Octopus]

Most people here do not use anyones tables consistantly, but play similarly to everyone's tables because they all say basically the same thing. As you imply, what they do is make plays based on their opponents (loose/tight, passive/aggressive, tilting, weak, thinking, etc.) and how their cards play against those opponents. SSH's discussion (*not the tables*) will tell you a huge amount about the answer to this question.

Yesterday, I 3-bet with pocket sixes and folded ATo to a single limper. These are not my normal plays, but I am comfortable with them in the situations I was in. Think about how hands play post-flop against different types and numbers of opponents, and draw your own conclusions.

[flopmonster]

do u have PT? A major factor in my preflop action and im sure the majority of posters on the forums use the limper/raiser/blinds stats as an indicator as to what to do......IE a very loose /agg player raises in
mp and folded to me on the button with Aqs or os....a clear 3 bet as opposed to a clear fold if that raiser was very passive preflop....as a general guideline i usually do not call raises with a hand like aj or aq os..usually reraise or fold..in a multiway pot ill cold call with kq s or aj s or 88...just as a general guideline

[Bob T.]

Mine. I just play, based on how I think the hand will play with the current set of opponents in the game right now. I can't tell you if a hand is group 3 or 4. A hand that might have been a raise 10 minutes ago, might be a fold now, and I might limp with it in a little bit. It is really so opponent and situation dependent that I don't think a table could do it justice.

When you enter a hand, you should already be thinking about how you plan to play on future streets, and what kinds of plays you might be facing from your opponents.

[ QUOTE ]
Mine. I just play, based on how I think the hand will play with the current set of opponents in the game right now.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is also how I think. Be observant and note which hands your opponents raise with in various positions. The gap principle (you need a better hand to call a raise with than to raise yourself) and understanding whether each kind of hand prefers to see a cheap flop, a multiway flop, a short-handed flop, or doesn't care helps in making decisions. This is all in SSH.

Until you really understand all the strengths and weaknesses of the starting hands, stick with the chart. Then over time it will start to make sense to you. Then you can ditch it.

[limitholdemshark]

U HAVE BEEN GIVEN GOOD ADVICE 4 ONLINE POKER.HOWEVER IF U WANT 2 PLAY IN A CASINO U NEED UR INTUITIVE POWERS BASE3D ON YEARS OF EXPERIENCE TO MAKE THE RIGHT PLAYS.I WOULD RECOMEND U READ HOLDEM 4 THE ADVANCED PLAYER AND READ THE FIRST 3 CHAPTERS ON STARTING HANDS IN EARLY,MIDDLE AND LATE POSITIONS.I RELIZE THE BOOK IS 4 MID TO HIGH LIMIT GAMES,BUT IT WILL GIVE U THE BASICS NEEDED TO COMPETE AT LOW STAKES HOLDEM IN A CARD ROOM.

[jskills]

Hand charts are good when you are starting out. OhGeeTee (was that the name?) published one in the forums somewhere (try the search function if interested).

King Yao's book provides the basis for an excellent starting hand guide.

However, as most of the posters here have said, you really need to make situationally dependent actions.

[12AX7]

Hi flair1239,
Yes, I do find myself constantly referring to SSHE's preflop section. :-)

I agree with everyone in here that it's always an "it depends" kind of analysis.

But was just curious what others do.

One underlying issue maybe I wasn't clear about.

WLLH, SSHE, HPFAP, etc. all are really about different types of games. So, online at what limits do you think each starts to apply?

For example, the "Advanced Player" series has always been about "pro" levels (10/20) and above. Though they say WPT has made all levels a bit more like small stakes in character. ;-)

What was going on when I wrote the original post was that I was scanning a lot of different limits online and wondering what adjustments are germaine to each limit.

[shant]

Entity's.

[Entity]

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Whose Preflop Reccomendations Do You Use?

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jason_t's. I have been known to play Aces. When I'm feeling frisky, Kings as well.

[Shillx]

My own. My VPIP is about 6% when the blinds are 10/15. It should be lower but I'm a luckbox and get AA a lot.

[lighterjobs]

[ QUOTE ]
U HAVE BEEN GIVEN GOOD ADVICE 4 ONLINE POKER.HOWEVER IF U WANT 2 PLAY IN A CASINO U NEED UR INTUITIVE POWERS BASE3D ON YEARS OF EXPERIENCE TO MAKE THE RIGHT PLAYS.I WOULD RECOMEND U READ HOLDEM 4 THE ADVANCED PLAYER AND READ THE FIRST 3 CHAPTERS ON STARTING HANDS IN EARLY,MIDDLE AND LATE POSITIONS.I RELIZE THE BOOK IS 4 MID TO HIGH LIMIT GAMES,BUT IT WILL GIVE U THE BASICS NEEDED TO COMPETE AT LOW STAKES HOLDEM IN A CARD ROOM.

[/ QUOTE ]

loud noises!!

[thesharpie]

Shillx's.

In general, I use the SSHE preflop recommendation. But I make big adjustments, whether I first enter the pot or not. For instance, if first, I raise with almost every pocket pair. If first, I also raise from time to time with Ace-rag, which I usually fold otherwise.

[crunchy1]

[ QUOTE ]
If first, I also raise from time to time with Ace-rag, which I usually fold otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]
?!? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

I, and I'm sure many others, would like to hear your reasoning behind this.

[thesharpie]

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If first, I also raise from time to time with Ace-rag, which I usually fold otherwise.

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?!? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

I, and I'm sure many others, would like to hear your reasoning behind this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love playing against those TAG guys who open raise ace rag, even in LMP. A8o is a monster against them.

[Petteri]

I do not use recommendation charts any longer. Anyhow I play full-ring around lines of HPFAP and Middle Limit holdem poker. But I have made adjustments.

But it is all about opposition.

I.e If I am on CO or button and have 1 limper I definitely raise 77 if blinds are not very loose.

If I have 2 limpers and loose blinds, 77 is call from CO or button.

I see pre-flop charts as good tool to learn the game, but as your game develops charts are no longer needed.

[Petteri]

[ QUOTE ]
In general, I use the SSHE preflop recommendation. But I make big adjustments, whether I first enter the pot or not. For instance, if first, I raise with almost every pocket pair. If first, I also raise from time to time with Ace-rag, which I usually fold otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

From CO or Button this raise is ok if blinds are tight. But if you raise Ace-rag and 22-55(66) from UTG, MP1 or MP2 you have major leak in typical game.