View Full Version : He turn donked me...
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)
I only had about 20 hands on the UTG but he was shaping up pretty fishy at 90/8/.3
Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.
Flop: (8.50 SB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls, BB folds, UTG calls.
Turn: (5.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, whoa! where did that come from... Hero...
cold_cash
10-08-2005, 03:02 AM
I'd fold, especially w/ a player behind me.
Argus
10-08-2005, 03:03 AM
Call. Villain is playing his hand like he has a marginal strength hand and doesn't want you to take a free card. I don't recommend a raise since your read makes me think he won't fold to a semi-bluff. He might also 3-bet you if he has a strong holding (a set or AJ/images/graemlins/heart.gif). With a likely 7-10 outs you can't fold in this pot, and having eliminated raising and folding as reasonable plans you're forced into calling.
detruncate
10-08-2005, 03:14 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Call. Villain is playing his hand like he has a marginal strength hand and doesn't want you to take a free card.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is also the way that passive players react when the turn makes them 2-pair, no?
Let's assume I hit my overcards. What do I do when...
1) He bets?
2) He checks?
I agree with the principle of raising if your hand hits the river or fold the turn in general. Is this a commonly accepted idea?
psw
Argus
10-08-2005, 11:13 AM
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
Let's assume I hit my overcards. What do I do when...
1) He bets?
[/ QUOTE ]
Call
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
2) He checks?
[/ QUOTE ]
Bet/fold.
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
I agree with the principle of raising if your hand hits the river or fold the turn in general. Is this a commonly accepted idea?
[/ QUOTE ]
I gave my advice based on the fact that the pot is large enough that you don't need implied odds to chase 7 outs, which already accounts for the possibility that you are reverse dominated on one card. However, there could be a flush draw out there too, or you could be dominated by both opponents (KJ and AT), or the bettor could have 2 pair, so you might have considerably less than 7 outs. After further thought on the matter I think the posters who recommend a fold are right.
Make the pot a couple bets bigger or headsup then you can follow my advice.
flopmonster
10-08-2005, 11:25 AM
u only have 20 hands on him but he is a passive player thus far and probably is overall like most party 2/4 players...this taken into account i think you are against 2 pair or a set here and therefore u have 3-4 outs and that is my reason for folding...also who knows what the CO will do
Dagger78
10-08-2005, 11:38 AM
You have 7-10 outs if you can consider all of your outs clean, which unfortunately we cannot. 4 of your outs put a 3 flush on the board, 2 more of your outs put 3 to a straight on the board, we're reverse dominated against QT,QJ, and any ace who paired thier kicker(hands people love to play).
With a player to act behind this is a fold, doens't matter he's a fish, HU we might be able to do something, but the player to act behind means we have to raise if we want to play.
If we raise we're getting 4-1(roughly) from the pot with UTG almost certain to call. We have to call if he 3-bets(we'll have odds to draw at that point), he may still donk us on the river if we don't hit (which we'll probably pay of at this point), and there is no guarantee a raise will knock out the player behind us. We're getting decent odds to raise, but the other factors outwiegh the pot odds in this case.
Fold and hope for better next time.
Dagger78
10-08-2005, 11:43 AM
We don't even need to give him credit for a set or 2-pair, if we give him credit for a pair it gives enough incentive to fold. The chance that his pair has us reverse dominated, he also has a flush draw, the player behind us has a hand, and he might have a big hand combine to make this an easy fold.
He doens't need to have a big hand to make a fold the correct play, we can only continue in this pot if we thought there was a chance to win the pot at showdown UI, and I think this would be a very rare ocurrence.
I'd give you 5 outs due to the two tone board, multiple oppoents and the chance that CO has one of your kings. That's 8.2:1. You're getting around 8:1 or so with implied odds. But there is a chance the CO raises, which would really suck. Also any A, Q or red K will be difficult to play on the river, if the CO hangs around. I'd fold.
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)
Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.
Flop: (8.50 SB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls, BB folds, UTG calls.
Turn: (5.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls, CO calls.
River: (8.75 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero....
ACK! I hit my hand and I don't really want to call. I should want to raise! Raise/Fold? Or just fold?
psw
BigBrother
10-08-2005, 06:04 PM
Depends on your read. Probably a fold to Villains 2pair or set that he's wetting his pants over. CO probably not an issue, either a busted draw or a weak pair along for the ride.
Pot is big enough that I call this down at Party 2/4 and I am good way more than 10%. Surprises me how often the passive fish make the most confusing bets with crap like 27.
If you think CO may overcall his weak pair then raising is -EV.
What car would you prefer? If you are going to fold here you should have folded the turn.
[ QUOTE ]
ACK! I hit my hand and I don't really want to call. I should want to raise! Raise/Fold? Or just fold?
[/ QUOTE ]
What's wrong with calling? I don't think you're ahead more than 50% of the time here. There's good chance CO will overcall if you don't raise. Calling with a winner will often net the same as a raising your winner. I can't see how you can call the turn then fold for one bet here.
Keep in mind UTG is 90/8/.3, not 20/8/.3. Aggression factors are not only a function of how aggressive a player is, they also relate to VPIP. Anyone with a 90% VPIP will have a low aggression factor. And there's no way you can know enough about UTG to fold with only 20 hands.
[ QUOTE ]
What car would you prefer? If you are going to fold here you should have folded the turn.
[/ QUOTE ]
A BMW. But since I can't get that, I would prefer the K /images/graemlins/spade.gif.
The point of my whole post is that I thought I should have folded when the UTG bet into me on the turn so I was checking with the board. I wasn't even happy when the river card hit my hand. I think the other poster is right here and calling is correct. Only a better hand calls the raise from either player, if I don't get 3-bet by the UTG, and I am going to be best here a few times out of 10.
psw
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