Does this limit strategy apply to NL too?

Button - $320, Hero - $250

I really don't know anything about opponent, this is like his second or third hand at the table after he took a LAG's stack with TPTK (AKo) vs the LAG's unimproved JJ on the flop/turn.

I didn't raise preflop because I was raising a lot. Meh.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em (NL$200) <font color="#0000FF">(5 handed)</font> link (http://www.darksun.lunarpages.com/poker/)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, Hero calls $2.00, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $6.00</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls $4.00.

Flop: ($15.00) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $8.00</font>, Hero calls $8.00.

Turn: ($31.00) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $15.00</font>

Final Pot: $46.00.

[pokernicus]

I'm not sure I completely understand what strategy you're referring to.

Do you mean smooth calling a continuation bet and leading out on the turn in hopes that your opponent will put you on a set and fold?

Naturally, it depends. Knowing nothing about this guy, the typical range of hands you can put him on are overcards (e.g., AK) or an overpair (e.g., KK).

If he has an over pair, and on a previous hand he was willing to put his entire stack on the line w/ TPTK, it seems that he is more likely to call you. Also, people have trouble getting away from an overpair even if they smell that they are up against a set.

If he has overcards, I would assume that he is more likely to fold. [He showed strength before the flop and on the flop, and you bet into him on the turn, so he's gotta figure you have at least a pair]

So, the upshot is that it seems that he will probably call with a better hand, but fold with a weaker hand. And this is usually not the outcome you want. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

In the same situation, I would check the turn; if he checks behind you, then I would make a value/blocking bet depending on what the river card is. If he bets again, I would probably fold the turn.

Of course, I don't know that I would even call the flop bet -- especially if I don't know much about the opponent. It would depend on the situation, how I feel at the time, etc.

Small/mid pocket pairs that don't convert to a set on the flop can be notoriously hard to play.

[amoeba]

this line is standard although I might have just checkraised the flop there as his bet amount really screams continuation there.

I think I would have fired 20 on the turn. as even overpair has to feel some pressure from the T.

the problem with checking the turn and hoping for overcards to hang themselves is that most overcards check behind here and on the river, not knowing which overcards he has, you might have to check fold to any broadway.

I wanted to fold overcards that have 6 outs against me, I don't want them getting to the river for free by allowing them to check. I also may get 66, may be 77, or if the guy is weak tight (don't think he is) may be he'd fold QQ, doubt it, but there may be some hands he'll fold that beat me. Is charging this guy to hit his 6 outer worth it? Should I just be giving up and letting the PF raiser mantain whatever momentum he wants?

[amoeba]

no, this play is fine and used often by members of this board.

Alright, thanks for the insight. Obviously I don't do this all the time, and idealy it's against an opponent who when raises the turn means I'm beat, but it seems you have to stand your ground, or at least make an attempt to every now and then. Plus playing your pairs like this, mixing it up with very strong hands and very weak hands makes it a pain to play against. At least I hate players who play like me.

It seems so many 2+2ers play a very timid/weak game postflop, I have to make sure I'm not being too aggressive every time I raise TP weak kicker or call a checkraise with one pair.

[amoeba]

nope. the idea about 2+2 players being weak and timid is very much wrong.

the problem is. many of the posted hands are about unknowns thus the aggression level seen in posts is toned down.

[pokernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously I don't do this all the time, and idealy it's against an opponent who when raises the turn means I'm beat, but it seems you have to stand your ground, or at least make an attempt to every now and then.

[/ QUOTE ]

I definitely agree. Though, I tend to err on the conservative side when a player just shows up -- until they've at least been around for a few hands.

Is there any reason that you didn't raise it up on the flop -- maybe to about $18-20? If he doesn't fold, you can bet he has a solid overpair, and is less likely to back down.

It's a slightly cheaper way of finding out where you stand, and it may provide the same outcome. Also, you reduce the risk of the turn card helping his hand.

[amoeba]

I tend to vary the two lines. if I am unsure of PFR's holdings, I am more prone to check/call, lead turn as I have a small chance of hitting the turn and also this move looks more legit and prevents an aggressive from 3 betting the flop.

if I am more certain that it is continuation bet based on his bet amount, I checkraise to charge maximum against missed overs to hit 6 outer.

but sometimes I'll pull these moves with nothing so I have to mix up the two.

Ya, I should've CR the flop I think. I was just thinking if I CR the flop I give him a chance to move in with some type of draw. Probably not the smartest thing I could've come up with. Although I do charge him more to hit overcards this way.

There are some decent reasons to take my line though...I give myself a chance to spike a 5 and play for his stack on the turn. If the turn completes an obvious draw I get some bluffing/folding equity, or I can just check/fold and be done with the hand. Also, I think calling the flop and betting the turn (which should of been $20 not $15 I guess) gets a little more respect than just CRing the flop. At least it would to me. I'd be more inclined to get frisky and reraise the flop if I was a LAG than raising a turn bet.

[amoeba]

read my post before yours.

I agree on pretty much everything.

Ya, saw that heh.

I think I like CRing the flop against TAGs or LAG TAGs more and check/call/bet vs real LAGs or very bad players. Obviously the key is to just keep mixing it up, playing unpredictably in the blinds or in situations like this against a thinking opponent a few times makes the later hands much easier to play if he'll start to respect you or not want to make difficult decisions.