This is standard Blind steal crap.... right

[flair1239]

I have assumed this is a standard line to use occasionally against other aggressive players.

Hero is Button with A /images/graemlins/spade.gif 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Villian is probably a TAG 17/15/2.5 over 60 hands. WTSD 34 W$SD 53. Fold to BB steal 55%

PF: Fold to me I raise, BB calls

Flop: T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

BB checks, I bet, Villian raises, I three bet

Intending to bet the turn if check to, or call cap fold turn unimproved.

FWIW, I had bee running very hot was up 25-30BB in a short period of time. I had been showing down well, and really had not gotten out of line. I had made a couple biggish folds against passive players earlier. So not sure how observant this player is... but could factor in.

Also, there are a multitude of hands I would check raise in his situation. So I am projecting a bit onto him as far as how I might play.

I would not consider this line everytime. But for certain situations. I think this might be one all thing considered. Thoughts?

[droolie]

This is a good line in certain situations but I'm not sure you described one I would try it in. I think varying your play is important and playing different lines is key against players you will be seeing a lot of. If you had previoulsy folded to a bunch of flop C/R's then I say good but I'm not sure having only played ABC poker gets noticed enough for this to work against a hand that has any chance of winning at showdown.

I like this line better if you have any piece of the flop. Give me a flush draw, OESD, split pair, PP, just about anything but here you've only got a very marginal A.

You might make him lay down a better hand and you might catch him with nothing but his pants down but quite often you'll get C/Red on the turn or capped on the flop or simply called down. My experience is that steal defenders err on the side on showing down when they hit the flop.

[toss]

When you 3-bet the flop you risk two chips to win 9. So villain has to have a worse hand or fold 1 in 4.5 times here. Now the Board is pretty raggedy so I think villain will have a T or smaller pocket pair a good amount of the time. Also he may have something like A7-A9 or QJ or air. I think I'd wait for an Ace with a better kicker (like 9 and higher) before I go 3-betting.

[flair1239]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a good line in certain situations but I'm not sure you described one I would try it in. I think varying your play is important and playing different lines is key against players you will be seeing a lot of. If you had previoulsy folded to a bunch of flop C/R's then I say good but I'm not sure having only played ABC poker gets noticed enough for this to work against a hand that has any chance of winning at showdown.

I like this line better if you have any piece of the flop. Give me a flush draw, OESD, split pair, PP, just about anything but here you've only got a very marginal A.

You might make him lay down a better hand and you might catch him with nothing but his pants down but quite often you'll get C/Red on the turn or capped on the flop or simply called down. My experience is that steal defenders err on the side on showing down when they hit the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is kind of what I was thinking and drove me to post this. I was thinking that in the situation he probably would be pretty likely to go to the river with any part of the flop or even a better ace.

I guess I would like to have a little more history with a player, if I am going to do this.

[flair1239]

[ QUOTE ]
When you 3-bet the flop you risk two chips to win 9. So villain has to have a worse hand or fold 1 in 4.5 times here. Now the Board is pretty raggedy so I think villain will have a T or smaller pocket pair a good amount of the time. Also he may have something like A7-A9 or QJ or air. I think I'd wait for an Ace with a better kicker (like 9 and higher) before I go 3-betting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep.

I think this may be one of those situations, where if it works and he folds to a 3-bet or a turn bet... it is just because he is folding a worse hand.

Can we look at it one other way (droolie kind of already did), what holdings/situations could I have that would move this play to appropriate against this type of player.

[callmedonnie]

Sometimes I use the exact same line. There are also times where I wait for the turn because I think a call of the raise and turn raise is usually taken seriously. Sometimes I just call the lead and raise the turn. Against a player who is good enough to make a move and also aware enough to know that I might be bluffing, I like to randomize the play. You can try it based on high card on the board, choose one over the other. A game theory type strategy. Against a weak player I just keep it simple and bet whenever I can. If they stick around, I fold.

Ironically lately I have preferred being in these spots OOP. I'll lead, call a raise, and then c/r the turn or just lead 3 bet and mix it up just like when I'm button/CO. But when I'm OOP, people tend to believe me quicker.

[toss]

I'm just saying that we have to pay attention to the board to see the likelyhood of villain CRing with a worse hand. If villain is the type to CR randomly no matter what he has then we have to revert to Game Theory.