A riverbluff and a slowplay 200NL [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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pokerjoker

10-07-2005, 11:36 AM

I've been trying to cut back on river bluffs but this seemed good, comments?

Both Villans seemed like mediocre players for 200NL but I could be wrong

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+1 ($90)
Hero ($445.85)
MP1 ($233.60)
MP2 ($103.75)
MP3 ($190)
CO ($330.25)
Button ($251.90)
SB ($44)
BB ($222)
UTG ($216.75)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of $1.
2 folds, Hero calls $2, 2 folds, MP3 calls $2, 1 fold, Button raises to $8, 2 folds, Hero calls $6, MP3 calls $6.

Flop: ($27) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $10, Button calls $10, Hero calls $10.

Turn: ($57) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $30, Button folds, Hero calls $30.

River: ($117) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $25, Hero raises to $75

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button ($88.62)
SB ($170.90)
BB ($282.03)
UTG ($229.25)
Hero ($212.80)
MP1 ($277.95)
MP2 ($236.56)
CO ($233.20)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of $1.
1 fold, Hero calls $2, MP1 calls $2, MP2 calls $2, 3 folds, BB checks.

Flop: ($9) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks.

Turn: ($9) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $6, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $6, BB folds.

River: ($21) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $15, MP2 raises to $30, Hero calls $189.80 (All-In),

anyone else like the ridiculus overbet here?

TheWorstPlayer

10-07-2005, 11:50 AM

hate hand 1. like hand 2.

yvesaint

10-07-2005, 11:50 AM

i dont like the overbet in hand 2

looks like he caught a straight with 56 at the end, and youre letting him off way too easily with that push

raise to 100 and let him call against your 'trips'

wdeadwyler

10-07-2005, 11:52 AM

First hand, your line just insnt convincing, Im calling this with any sort of decent queen every time. If you want to make a river bluff, you have to set it up on a different street (ie raise flop or turn). Why would you check all three streets with a made hand?

Hand 2, the overbet isnt horrible, but Id probably make it 80-100 to go and get another 50 or so out of him. Can he fold trips here? (Not to say he has trips, though that does seem to be the case)

Edit: Just read Yvesaints (sp) post, yea a str8 is also a possibilty.

soah

10-07-2005, 12:08 PM

The only thing that matters in hand 1 is your read. And you don't seem to have one. Some players will NEVER EVER CALL in that spot and others will almost never fold. And that's all there is to it.

On the second hand you make it hard for a worse hand to get called. Maybe you get lucky and he decides A3s is good, but your line reeks of strength and that board just doesn't hit many hands very hard.

djoyce003

10-07-2005, 12:20 PM

hand 1 - put a sticky on your computer that says "i will not try to bluff against bad players"

Hand 2 - Really don't like the overbet....I'd raise it up for sure but more for value to the 80-100 range. I think you are letting him off the hook here if he has trips or a straight...he's likely folding. If you reraise though you will at least get a call, possibly get him to push, but a straight push here is probably folding out most hands.

TheWorstPlayer

10-07-2005, 12:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The only thing that matters in hand 1 is your read. And you don't seem to have one. Some players will NEVER EVER CALL in that spot and others will almost never fold. And that's all there is to it.

On the second hand you make it hard for a worse hand to get called. Maybe you get lucky and he decides A3s is good, but your line reeks of strength and that board just doesn't hit many hands very hard.

[/ QUOTE ]
HOLY [censored]!

wdeadwyler

10-07-2005, 02:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only thing that matters in hand 1 is your read. And you don't seem to have one. Some players will NEVER EVER CALL in that spot and others will almost never fold. And that's all there is to it.

On the second hand you make it hard for a worse hand to get called. Maybe you get lucky and he decides A3s is good, but your line reeks of strength and that board just doesn't hit many hands very hard.

[/ QUOTE ]
HOLY [censored]!

[/ QUOTE ]

Care to elaborate on your expletive TWP?

Slappz

10-07-2005, 02:07 PM

Why dont you raise more in hand 1?

wdeadwyler

10-07-2005, 02:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why dont you raise more in hand 1?

[/ QUOTE ]

Who do you raise at all?

pokerjoker

10-07-2005, 03:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why dont you raise more in hand 1?

[/ QUOTE ]

His river bet looked a lot like a post oak bluff off a busted flushdraw or a blocking bet with a pp. I thought it would be enough to get a flushdraw (obviously) or a pocket pair (maybe) to fold.

I would think he would bet more if he was betting for value and this didnt look like a bluff inducing bet.

Guin

10-07-2005, 03:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
His river bet looked a lot like a post oak bluff off a busted flushdraw or a blocking bet with a pp. I thought it would be enough to get a flushdraw (obviously) or a pocket pair (maybe) to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you bet enough to get anyone to fold. You either bet pot or slightly more to put him in a situation where they can lay it down. If you are going to fire a bullet make it a good one.

Guin... likes to fire three bullets and get caught once in a while.

subzero

10-07-2005, 03:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think you bet enough to get anyone to fold. You either bet pot or slightly more to put him in a situation where they can lay it down. If you are going to fire a bullet make it a good one.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. Villain's getting better than 4:1 on his call. He only has to be ahead about 19% of the time to call you.

pokerjoker

10-07-2005, 04:33 PM

both villans folded.

wdeadwyler

10-07-2005, 04:35 PM

In hand 1, what hand were your trying to rep? I dont see a single logical one.

pokerjoker

10-07-2005, 04:42 PM

there is no winning hand I would play like this personally, then again villan probably doesnt know my game that well....hands that others could play like this could include KQ, AQ, 22, 55.

xorbie

10-07-2005, 05:06 PM

Fold the turn in hand 1.

pokerjoker

10-07-2005, 05:48 PM

'cause you are scared of being against a higher flush draw? or cause u dont think you get implied odds if you hit? ot both?

10-07-2005, 06:30 PM

I'd say both, but mostly implied odds. I doubt he's betting like this with a draw, though of course it is possible. Your line looks exactly like a flush draw. When you hit, it's not disguised at all, and you're probably not going to get the river bet out of him that you'd need to get return on your implied odds.

You'll get it out of him when he has a higher flush though. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

orange

10-07-2005, 06:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only thing that matters in hand 1 is your read. And you don't seem to have one. Some players will NEVER EVER CALL in that spot and others will almost never fold. And that's all there is to it.

On the second hand you make it hard for a worse hand to get called. Maybe you get lucky and he decides A3s is good, but your line reeks of strength and that board just doesn't hit many hands very hard.

[/ QUOTE ]
HOLY [censored]!

[/ QUOTE ]

Care to elaborate on your expletive TWP?

[/ QUOTE ]

Haven't seen him for a while.

jjacky

10-07-2005, 07:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why dont you raise more in hand 1?

[/ QUOTE ]

His river bet looked a lot like a post oak bluff off a busted flushdraw or a blocking bet with a pp. I thought it would be enough to get a flushdraw (obviously) or a pocket pair (maybe) to fold.

I would think he would bet more if he was betting for value and this didnt look like a bluff inducing bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

if he made a blocking bet on the river in position, he doesn't completely understand the concept of a blocking bet. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

pokerjoker

10-07-2005, 07:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why dont you raise more in hand 1?

[/ QUOTE ]

His river bet looked a lot like a post oak bluff off a busted flushdraw or a blocking bet with a pp. I thought it would be enough to get a flushdraw (obviously) or a pocket pair (maybe) to fold.

I would think he would bet more if he was betting for value and this didnt look like a bluff inducing bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

if he made a blocking bet on the river in position, he doesn't completely understand the concept of a blocking bet. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

lol....oops. Allrighty...i guess I forgot what I was thinking on that hand...anyway...I guess he obviously had a flush draw, total air, or very unlikely something better...good point. When I made the bluff A flush draw looked most likely.

amoeba

10-07-2005, 08:37 PM

I hate hate hate hand 1.

what do you think a donk with Q weak kicker does in hand 1?

I think a turn fold is appropriate.