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View Full Version : OT: My mom wants me to be a poker pro


pergesu
10-07-2005, 06:50 AM
After class today (Political Theory, which totally kicks ass), I had to take my mom to the body shop where she picked up her car from repair. On the way, she nonchalantly says to me, "You know honey, you should consider moving to Reno next year." "Oh really? And do what?" "Well maybe you could take a shot at being a poker player for a year." (slience) "What?" "Clearly you're very interested in the game, and you're always telling me how much you learned that day...if you love it so much you might as well give it a try for a while. Reno's smaller than Vegas so you'll adjust better."

Okay wait what? My mom WANTS me to take a break from college and be a poker pro?

It is getting kind of chilly here.

MegaBet
10-07-2005, 07:27 AM
My parents were a little concerned at first, but after I showed them my continued success they have warmed to the idea. Now they totally accept it.

Seth Money
10-07-2005, 07:34 AM
White people can't play the game that I do

Kanye

Sabrazack
10-07-2005, 07:38 AM
Well, my mom was very sceptical when i first started playing poker. But when i showed her some of my cashouts she kinda turned around. However, she would still go into a hissy fit if i even considered dropping out of college and going pro :P

Cactus Jack
10-07-2005, 07:50 AM
Why not? Imho, this is no different a call than a good college athlete leaving college early to take a shot at the pros. If it doesn't work out, go back and finish. If it does work out, chances are good you'll make a lot more money than you would with a degree.

Congratulations. You've got a better Mom than I had, or still have. (She thinks I'm a degenerate gambler, but never misses the Tues Night Lotto and Sat Night bingo.)

CJ

pergesu
10-07-2005, 07:55 AM
[ QUOTE ]
this is no different a call than a good college athlete leaving college early to take a shot at the pros

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah there's a huge difference. It lies in the use of the word 'good.'

I appreciate the support though.

bones
10-07-2005, 08:00 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Why not? Imho, this is no different a call than a good college athlete leaving college early to take a shot at the pros.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty sure this makes me the Matt Walsh of the SNG circuit.

Hornacek
10-07-2005, 08:16 AM
I'm on the other side of these opinions: I agree that for years 1-3 you can make more at a 9-5er, but I'm not sure how high the ceiling can get. I always hear pros say that it takes huge mental and psychological stability to handle swings full-time, and this job comes without any benefits (medical insurance, 401K, life insurance, pension, etc) that greatly favor the normal working life.

Don't get me wrong; I love poker and have made quite a bit of money playing it, but I play at nights when the fish come out to play, and still have a (hopefully) normal life on top of that.

Eevee
10-07-2005, 08:39 AM
Meh.

-EV

MegaBet
10-07-2005, 09:37 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I'm on the other side of these opinions: I agree that for years 1-3 you can make more at a 9-5er, but I'm not sure how high the ceiling can get. I always hear pros say that it takes huge mental and psychological stability to handle swings full-time, and this job comes without any benefits (medical insurance, 401K, life insurance, pension, etc) that greatly favor the normal working life.

Don't get me wrong; I love poker and have made quite a bit of money playing it, but I play at nights when the fish come out to play, and still have a (hopefully) normal life on top of that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Benefits:

No Tax (for me in the UK)
No need for medical insurance (it is free in the UK)
I put away a % of my monthly winnings as a "retirement plan"
No boss
Play when I want
I have a "normal" life

downtown
10-07-2005, 09:40 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is no different a call than a good college athlete leaving college early to take a shot at the pros

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah there's a huge difference. It lies in the use of the word 'millions.'

[/ QUOTE ]

fyp

fnord_too
10-07-2005, 10:10 AM
You need to explain to her that online pwns live poker, and that it is best to stay in college and enjoy a (hopefully) profitable hobby. Mom's today, always wanting their kids to go pro, ignoring the hard work and downside, only seeing the dollar signs of fast, easy money...

10-07-2005, 10:10 AM
[ QUOTE ]
After class today (Political Theory, which totally kicks ass), I had to take my mom to the body shop where she picked up her car from repair. On the way, she nonchalantly says to me, "You know honey, you should consider moving to Reno next year." "Oh really? And do what?" "Well maybe you could take a shot at being a poker player for a year." (slience) "What?" "Clearly you're very interested in the game, and you're always telling me how much you learned that day...if you love it so much you might as well give it a try for a while. Reno's smaller than Vegas so you'll adjust better."

Okay wait what? My mom WANTS me to take a break from college and be a poker pro?

It is getting kind of chilly here.

[/ QUOTE ]
Finish college, then take a gap year to give it a go. Better to get the education done and dusted first. You've got decades of work ahead of you - the last thing you want to be doing is finding you want a change after a few years from playing poker and then going back to college very late. Reno will still be there when you finish your education.

raptor517
10-07-2005, 10:29 AM
Reno is the sh1t hole of the gambling world. you arent going to play much live anyway. find yerself a nice beach or mountain with ski slopes. holla

Nicholasp27
10-07-2005, 10:55 AM
seriously, if ur gonna play poker for a living, do it

a) overseas
b) on water
c) in the mountains
d) wherever else appeals to you

Elaboration
10-07-2005, 10:56 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Congratulations. You've got a better Mom than I had, or still have. (She thinks I'm a degenerate gambler, but never misses the Tues Night Lotto and Sat Night bingo.)


[/ QUOTE ]

Classic.. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

runner4life7
10-07-2005, 11:00 AM
Thats very odd, my parents are fine with me playing poker. It's the encouragement to go pro that I found different. Its good she is supportive though, but I have to agree with raptor, if you are moving go somewhere nice that you will enjoy for reasons other than poker.

me1tdown
10-07-2005, 11:25 AM
Finish school first. Seriously.
(In 2+2 parlance: get through levels 1-3 before pushing).
Some things to consider:
1.Your degree will give you an amazing amount of options. Poker pro can be one of them.
2.You can continue playing online while in school, so you're not missing out.
3. Poker money (except at the very,very,very extreme upper-end) is chump change compared to a lot of other things that a young person with a sharp mind can be doing and earning.. (Homework -- what did Phil Gordon do _before_ becoming a poker pro? What's owning 5% of a $20M company worth? What's it worth if you make a 6 figure salary while your at it?)
4. Shackling up financial needs to a game you love playing changes the relationship. It's fun now making money playing when you can take time off for studying; dating; seeing concerts; going to movies; sleeping 18 hours straight -- you get the idea. Pro means professional -- you'll have to hit hard and not slack off or you'll get smoked -- ie it's a lot like work. The thing to realise is that your progress and efforts are not linear. There will be times when you're not very productive nor very focused and other times you'll be on a tear. When your on salary it's no big deal -- you probably won't even notice it. When you're self-employed it's a tremendous stress and strain. Really.
5. Mom will eventually come to terms with your being a college graduate.

TheNoodleMan
10-07-2005, 11:31 AM
[ QUOTE ]

5. Mom will eventually come to terms with your being a college graduate.

[/ QUOTE ]
lmao

10-07-2005, 11:41 AM
My mom thinks me being a poker pro would be similar to my sister being a prostitute. She actually said this.

me1tdown
10-07-2005, 11:42 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

5. Mom will eventually come to terms with your being a college graduate.

[/ QUOTE ]
lmao

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL -- sorry if it came out that way, not the intention or the sentiment.

TheNoodleMan
10-07-2005, 11:42 AM
yeah, but did your sister make enough to support herself? j/k

10-07-2005, 11:48 AM
[ QUOTE ]
yeah, but did your sister make enough to support herself? j/k

[/ QUOTE ]

lol /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

barry111
10-07-2005, 12:09 PM
Someone once said 'Money won is ten times as sweet as money earned.' The problem with going pro is it now becomes money you have to earn. Finish college and continue to get better at poker.

bigt439
10-07-2005, 12:11 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Finish college and continue to get better at poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

If nothing else because you basically have enough time to play semi-pro while going to school, and because university is an amazing time. I think I'd have way more fun at university now then playing poker somewhere else.

10-07-2005, 12:14 PM
I'm a senior at UCF, graduating in August. I've been seriously considering taking a year off and playing poker. I visited my grandparents and spent 3 hours at Foxwoods up in CT. I made $64~ an hour at 2/4 limit and that was folding every single hand for the first hour because I got dreadful cards. You just start thinking to yourself...what job out of college would give you $64 an hour? And on top of that - would you love it? Even if you make it $50 an hour for 40 hrs/week it comes out to $100,000 a year full time. I'm not trying to toot my own horn but just bring up a point regarding people in my similar situation. My parents have warmed up to the idea but they were so concerned when I started playing. They thought I was going to become a gambling addict and get kicked out of school and all that craziness. There were some good points mentioned above about the lack of benefits from being a poker player. I'm just pretty much confused as lots of us fairly successful college poker players are. A lot of graduates take a year off to go skiing, travel the world and whatever, I guess you could consider this just something like that. Did anyone reading this thread actually do this? How did it turn out?

psyduck
10-07-2005, 01:36 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I'm a senior at UCF, graduating in August. I've been seriously considering taking a year off and playing poker. I visited my grandparents and spent 3 hours at Foxwoods up in CT. I made $64~ an hour at 2/4 limit and that was folding every single hand for the first hour because I got dreadful cards. You just start thinking to yourself...what job out of college would give you $64 an hour? And on top of that - would you love it? Even if you make it $50 an hour for 40 hrs/week it comes out to $100,000 a year full time. I'm not trying to toot my own horn but just bring up a point regarding people in my similar situation. My parents have warmed up to the idea but they were so concerned when I started playing. They thought I was going to become a gambling addict and get kicked out of school and all that craziness. There were some good points mentioned above about the lack of benefits from being a poker player. I'm just pretty much confused as lots of us fairly successful college poker players are. A lot of graduates take a year off to go skiing, travel the world and whatever, I guess you could consider this just something like that. Did anyone reading this thread actually do this? How did it turn out?

[/ QUOTE ]

RUNNING HOT. Jesus christ, it doesn't take a genius to know that if you were doing $64/hr at TWO/FOUR FIXED.

Hornacek
10-07-2005, 02:20 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm a senior at UCF, graduating in August. I've been seriously considering taking a year off and playing poker. I visited my grandparents and spent 3 hours at Foxwoods up in CT. I made $64~ an hour at 2/4 limit and that was folding every single hand for the first hour because I got dreadful cards. You just start thinking to yourself...what job out of college would give you $64 an hour? And on top of that - would you love it? Even if you make it $50 an hour for 40 hrs/week it comes out to $100,000 a year full time. I'm not trying to toot my own horn but just bring up a point regarding people in my similar situation. My parents have warmed up to the idea but they were so concerned when I started playing. They thought I was going to become a gambling addict and get kicked out of school and all that craziness. There were some good points mentioned above about the lack of benefits from being a poker player. I'm just pretty much confused as lots of us fairly successful college poker players are. A lot of graduates take a year off to go skiing, travel the world and whatever, I guess you could consider this just something like that. Did anyone reading this thread actually do this? How did it turn out?

[/ QUOTE ]

RUNNING HOT. Jesus christ, it doesn't take a genius to know that if you were doing $64/hr at TWO/FOUR FIXED.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good God. Was that your first time playing B&M? I used to go to FW every week... trust me, that 2/4 game cannot be consistently beaten when they take $4 out for rake every time. YOUR SAMPLE SIZE IS TOO SMALL.

What limits do you generally play at? And are you really successful enough?

I think most people cannot grasp the difficulty of playing full-time until they've seen a 100 buyin downswing (like I had earlier this year) and live in misery for a week or two.

GtrHtr
10-07-2005, 02:24 PM
Your Mom obviously hasn't seen you play /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

raptor517
10-07-2005, 02:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Good God. Was that your first time playing B&M? I used to go to FW every week... trust me, that 2/4 game cannot be consistently beaten when they take $4 out for rake every time. YOUR SAMPLE SIZE IS TOO SMALL.

[/ QUOTE ]

well.. the game CAN be beaten, just not for very much /images/graemlins/wink.gif you would make more workin at mcdonalds. holla

raptor517
10-07-2005, 02:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]
100 buyin downswing (like I had earlier this year)

[/ QUOTE ]

more than likely, yer game has some SEVERE holes that need plugging. get to postin hands. holla

lorinda
10-07-2005, 02:46 PM
I have no idea what my parents think. I never thought to ask them.

Lori

10-07-2005, 02:47 PM
Be smart, stay in school, get a good degree, then get a good job.

That is +EV.

As an aside think about this....

- If you play 20/40
- avg. 35 hands / hr
- win @ 3.0 bb/100 (Sure you can beat lower games for more, but at 20/40 the players are usually decent, not the donks you get at Foxwoods 2/4 game)
- play 8 hours a day (with breaks in there this would take up about 10 hours a day)
- and play 200 days a year

you will make......$67,200 per year, take off retirement saving, health insurance, etc. and you will be at ~$55,000 per year.

Guess what you will make next year - about the same, and then the year after, etc.

This doesn't take into account the RAPIDLY advancing poker population. (I don't buy into all poker 'drying' up over time, but I think that there will be a lot better players coming up through the ranks in the next few years, and that will drive the fish out of the upper limits quite quickly.)

I think that with a good degree you will at least be break even in a few years, with some decent post graduate eduction (i.e. CPA, MBA, PMP, etc.) you will be well ahead of what you can REALISTICALLY expect to make playing poker.

Just some thoughts.

Hornacek
10-07-2005, 02:48 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
100 buyin downswing (like I had earlier this year)

[/ QUOTE ]

more than likely, yer game has some SEVERE holes that need plugging. get to postin hands. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

that was 8 months ago... running g00t now...

i think i wasn't maximizing bubble play, but thats history.

liucipher
10-07-2005, 02:54 PM
Totally OT:

Is Foxwoods consistently beatable (e.g. for someone like me, not for raptor)? I've only been twice, each time on a Saturday. I had to wait like an hour and a half for a $100NL table and both times I was placed at a table where the $100 buyin was paltry compared to the $2k stacks sitting around me. The $5/30 minutes rake was also killing me. Despite $2 blinds, raises to $20 were getting multiple callers. Each time I busted pretty quickly - blinds/rake whittled me down and then I'd move all-in for $60 with a hand like QQ and get four callers w/ Ax, Kxs garbage.


Only reason I ask is 'cause my roommate wants to go this weekend. I've already blown $400 there (point of reference: I play the $11s) so am not overly eager given my past experiences.

Hornacek
10-07-2005, 02:57 PM
I've never tried the $100nl game there, but yes, 5/10 kill and 10/20 can be beaten quite easily. Esp on the weekends, when the donks come out to play.

My friends have said the $100nl can be beaten if you start a new table. However, if you join mid-day, there are way too many people sitting there with ginormous stacks.

raptor517
10-07-2005, 02:58 PM
[ QUOTE ]
My friends have said the $100nl can be beaten if you start a new table. However, if you join mid-day, there are way too many people sitting there with ginormous stacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

umm.. thats when its the MOST profitable. holla

The Yugoslavian
10-07-2005, 03:00 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I have no idea what my parents think. I never thought to ask them.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you shared with them the fact that you're a smoking hot lesbian? /images/graemlins/blush.gif

Or are you waiting on breakin' that news as well?

/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Yugoslav

Kanchi
10-07-2005, 03:09 PM
[ QUOTE ]
what job out of college would give you $64 an hour?

[/ QUOTE ]

The same job that can give you minus hundreds+ of dollars an hour or 0 profit over months.

My mom hates to see me player poker so I play when she's not at home. She'd rather see me spend my time studying or not see me at all and know I'm outside with friends or something.

liucipher
10-07-2005, 03:14 PM
I don't disagree. The play is horrendous on Saturday nights. I think I was approaching the game incorrectly.

This was the strategy I was trying to use due to the big stacks and pot-committing raises you needed PF: play tight, wait for a huge hand, push hard preflop (all-in if I'm even approaching $50). But the 5% rake/half hour + the slowness of B&M meant by the time I got a "strong" hand I only had like $60.

Suggestions?

Rick Diesel
10-07-2005, 03:15 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I'm a senior at UCF, graduating in August. I've been seriously considering taking a year off and playing poker. I visited my grandparents and spent 3 hours at Foxwoods up in CT. I made $64~ an hour at 2/4 limit and that was folding every single hand for the first hour because I got dreadful cards. You just start thinking to yourself...what job out of college would give you $64 an hour? And on top of that - would you love it? Even if you make it $50 an hour for 40 hrs/week it comes out to $100,000 a year full time. I'm not trying to toot my own horn but just bring up a point regarding people in my similar situation. My parents have warmed up to the idea but they were so concerned when I started playing. They thought I was going to become a gambling addict and get kicked out of school and all that craziness. There were some good points mentioned above about the lack of benefits from being a poker player. I'm just pretty much confused as lots of us fairly successful college poker players are. A lot of graduates take a year off to go skiing, travel the world and whatever, I guess you could consider this just something like that. Did anyone reading this thread actually do this? How did it turn out?

[/ QUOTE ]

$50 an hour playing 2/4? Are you serious? A great player would have to run hot for the whole year to average $10 an hour. $100k a year playing 2/4, yeah!

Hornacek
10-07-2005, 03:16 PM
Rebuy whenever you get low to get back up to $100

liucipher
10-07-2005, 03:28 PM
I'm pretty sure you can't extrapolate your $/hr rate when you're running hot + when the casino is at maximum donk capacity to a full 40 hour week. e.g. I've noticed my SNG ROI is better when there are 50,000+ players online than when there are ~20,000 players. Hell, I wouldn't even extrapolate how you're doing this year into a full 30-year career (in ten years, I'd imagine the poker landscape is significantly different).

Second, even if you made $100,000 a year: it's true there are very few jobs out of college that pay that much for 40 hours a week. But there are a slew of finance jobs that pay that much or more for 60-100 hours a week. And those jobs, when you get to your late 20s and early 30s, will pay you significantly more than you could ever make playing poker (unless you're Phil Ivey, but I'm guessing the odds you're Phil Ivey are about the same odds that you're Eric Mindich).

My $.02: poker's a great hobby and an even better career if you're an amazing player. But don't compare how much you're making right now with how much you could make right out of college. The payoffs of a career come much later, whereas the "salary" from poker levels off pretty quickly.

liucipher
10-07-2005, 03:30 PM
Not a bad idea.

Stupid question: how much (off the top of the head) should I expect to lose in a 4 hour session of $100NL at FW just due to variance?

Scuba Chuck
10-07-2005, 03:46 PM
Before we move on, I'd want to know how you mom had the "sex talk" with you first. This might clear up the picture a little more for us.

SNOWBALL138
10-07-2005, 03:48 PM
Which political theory class? I took classical political theory and modern political theory. Those were two of my favorite classes. Just curious.

Hornacek
10-07-2005, 04:04 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Second, even if you made $100,000 a year: it's true there are very few jobs out of college that pay that much for 40 hours a week. But there are a slew of finance jobs that pay that much or more for 60-100 hours a week. And those jobs, when you get to your late 20s and early 30s, will pay you significantly more than you could ever make playing poker (unless you're Phil Ivey, but I'm guessing the odds you're Phil Ivey are about the same odds that you're Eric Mindich).

[/ QUOTE ]

I just graduated with my Bachelors ('04) and Masters ('05) in Computer Science from MIT and am working in NY on Wall Street. My first year pay, while not amazing compared to what I hope to make in the future, is probably the same amount any of the top 5% of the players here will make in a year. Plus, I get free breakfast and lunch every day, medical insurance, dental, life insurance, transportation subsidy, and 401K retirement.

On top of that, I go home every night, play poker (if I want to) without the restriction that I won't have any food to eat if I lose it all.

In short: FINISH COLLEGE. I played 3x as much as I do now in college, and still got decent grades... your parents will be happy, and it's the better long-term goal.

liucipher
10-07-2005, 04:41 PM
Free breakfast and lunch . . . I take it you're doing trading?

MS in course 6 . . . I'm going to take a stab and guess derivatives?

Right/wrong? :-)

Hornacek
10-07-2005, 04:44 PM
You're a beaver too?

trading... equity options and futures... how did you know? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

liucipher
10-07-2005, 04:48 PM
Naw my sis was a beaver. Wears the brass rat and everything. Bunch of friends from high school went there too.

I'm still a senior in college. The firm where I was interning at the past summer though had a 2nd year from MIT that had a 5.0 in B.S./M.S. in CS. He thought finance was the most boring thing in the world . . . but easily the best paying. :-)

Slim Pickens
10-07-2005, 04:54 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Wears the brass rat and everything.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure the women's ring is designed primarily for self-defense. Ugly as all hell... nice and heavy for punching horny nerds.

liucipher
10-07-2005, 04:56 PM
She had to stop wearing it recently - medical residency /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Speaking of which: when I advocate a good career over quitting school to play poker, playing poker is probably +EV in comparison to med school /images/graemlins/wink.gif

MegaBet
10-07-2005, 05:46 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have no idea what my parents think. I never thought to ask them.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you shared with them the fact that you're a smoking hot lesbian? /images/graemlins/blush.gif

Or are you waiting on breakin' that news as well?

/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

We're all waiting for the hot picture of Lorinda. If anyone had one, Yugo would /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Isura
10-07-2005, 05:49 PM
[ QUOTE ]
You need to explain to her that online pwns live poker, and that it is best to stay in college and enjoy a (hopefully) profitable hobby. Mom's today, always wanting their kids to go pro, ignoring the hard work and downside, only seeing the dollar signs of fast, easy money...

[/ QUOTE ]

POTD.

10-07-2005, 05:56 PM
[ QUOTE ]

$50 an hour playing 2/4? Are you serious? A great player would have to run hot for the whole year to average $10 an hour. $100k a year playing 2/4, yeah!

[/ QUOTE ]

Well OK if that's too high for you, then howbout 3/6? The level of skill doesn't change that much at casinos moving to that level. I've had many of 2/4 sessions where I did 100/hr. I think it is reasonable that you could do $50 an hour playing 3/6 if you played correctly over the longrun. My experience is that tables at casinos are rediculously loose at that level, so you just adjust accordingly.

To address the other post about finance jobs, what do these finance people do exactly right out of college that are making a bundle as is mentioned? I'm not challenging your knowledge I would just like to know because I'll soon be looking for one. I'm a finance major myself and have had several recent encounters with "financial" offices offering positions to recent college grads. You think you're becoming an analyst or advisor but instead they get you all excited and you find yourself doing cold calls for 80+ hours a week, selling out your family and friends as possible clients. That's how it goes here in Orlando anyway. Too many companies try to take advantage of ignorant college grads, seen it happen over and over again. I would love to come across a legitimate financial office that means well for the clients instead of trying to get them to sign up for insurance and "financial plans" (selling only the company securities and nothing else). Some companies I'm talking about include Ameriprise, Northwestern Mutual, and Meryl Lynch. Don't get me wrong, if you don't mind how these companies operate and are good at it, you can make LOTS of money. I'm just trying to see if you are referring to these types or not. Most people just consider these positions morally wrong.

Hornacek
10-07-2005, 06:00 PM
I work at a proprietary trading firm. My roommate (another MIT grad) works at Bank of America for Mortgage-Backed Securities. And trading is different from brokering.

There are other jobs out there besides sales, ya know.

10-07-2005, 06:07 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure you can't extrapolate your $/hr rate when you're running hot + when the casino is at maximum donk capacity to a full 40 hour week. e.g. I've noticed my SNG ROI is better when there are 50,000+ players online than when there are ~20,000 players.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I went on a Tuesday early afternoon. There was basically no wait and all the tables weren't filled. I don't have very extensive casino experience but wouldn't it be harder during the day like that when people are there to make money instead of have fun for the most part? I do realize that it was low limit and my table was still filled with "donks" and you just had to wait for the cards. It was actually pretty fun because pot odds go out the window when you get 8+ players in every pot.

Forgive me, I'm a newb to this forum. What does, for example, 2bb/100 mean? Everyone talks about profit and such like that, I guess I don't know the lingo. Sorry in advance.

10-07-2005, 06:11 PM
[ QUOTE ]

I just graduated with my Bachelors ('04) and Masters ('05) in Computer Science from MIT and am working in NY on Wall Street. My first year pay, while not amazing compared to what I hope to make in the future, is probably the same amount any of the top 5% of the players here will make in a year.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is awesome, congrats. I'm sure you worked quite hard at MIT for that masters. How did you find that position? Or did it find you? As I said above, I'm finance major but pretty dissapointed with the prospects I've found as of yet. A big dream of mine would be to apply financial applications (investing, cashflow analysis, etc.) to alternative energy (wind turbine/solar power), but I'll have to search far and wide to find a good one in that field. That is great that you landed an awesome position early on.

10-07-2005, 06:16 PM
[ QUOTE ]

There are other jobs out there besides sales, ya know.

[/ QUOTE ]

I realize. That's just what we are presented with around here.

bugstud
10-07-2005, 06:26 PM
if you could live off of 3/6 live, we'd be doing it. You can't.

beeyjay
10-07-2005, 07:05 PM
hahaha... i pray you're not banking on this. i admit the only thing i know about you is this post that i just read so maybe i'm way off but you are the exact type of person that should NOT bank on making a living playing poker... at least not yet anyway.

tshort
10-07-2005, 07:43 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

$50 an hour playing 2/4? Are you serious? A great player would have to run hot for the whole year to average $10 an hour. $100k a year playing 2/4, yeah!

[/ QUOTE ]

Well OK if that's too high for you, then howbout 3/6? The level of skill doesn't change that much at casinos moving to that level. I've had many of 2/4 sessions where I did 100/hr. I think it is reasonable that you could do $50 an hour playing 3/6 if you played correctly over the longrun. My experience is that tables at casinos are rediculously loose at that level, so you just adjust accordingly.

[/ QUOTE ]

$15/hr would be great at 3/6.

You think you can make $50 hr playing 3/6 at a B&M? You're nuts.

10-07-2005, 10:17 PM
Poker is great for pocket change but I think it would be kinda depressing still only grinding out $100k a year when you are in your 30s and 40s.

Unarmed
10-07-2005, 10:19 PM
Go live in Reno and amuse yourself by watching my loc change over the next year.

Bluff Daddy
10-07-2005, 10:38 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Poker is great for pocket change but I think it would be kinda depressing still only grinding out $100k a year when you are in your 30s and 40s.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think its kind of depressing working a shitty ass job your whole life never making close to 100k a year which is what most of the people on this planet do

raptor517
10-07-2005, 10:50 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Poker is great for pocket change but I think it would be kinda depressing still only grinding out $100k a year when you are in your 30s and 40s.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think its kind of depressing working a shitty ass job your whole life never making close to 100k a year which is what most of the people on this planet do

[/ QUOTE ]

its what most people on the planet dream to do. 100k a year is NOT chump change. check the average salary of american families. holla

Mr_J
10-07-2005, 10:53 PM
"Second, even if you made $100,000 a year: it's true there are very few jobs out of college that pay that much for 40 hours a week."

Ok I'm 22. I'm getting my 12tabling setup tomorrow. This will give me an hourly rate of something between $130-$160, give or take $20. On top of that, I live in australia so that is tax-free baby. So in aus that's equiv to an income of $250 an hour before tax. Working 3hrs a day for 40 weeks a year, this is a $210k job. Bump that up to 4hrs and I'm making the equiv of $300k before tax. Throw out poker, acting, singing, modeling and whoring and tell me how many jobs would pay a 22yo like that??

"And those jobs, when you get to your late 20s and early 30s, will pay you significantly more than you could ever make playing poker"

You're forgetting the investments a young poker player can afford to make.

"But don't compare how much you're making right now with how much you could make right out of college."

I see poker as more of a way to get a solid financial base. I'm sure alot of other young poker players feel the same way.

"are a slew of finance jobs that pay that much or more for 60-100 hours a week."

Who the F*CK wants to work hours like that? Anyway the proper comparison would be to give the 2 jobs similar hours. A 12tabling $55er will make >10k a week working 60-80hrs.

"whereas the "salary" from poker levels off pretty quickly."

Poker is shorterm for me, a way to build capital quickly. By the time these guys with finance jobs are making 'big money', I will have retired.

Edited to say ok it's not for everyone, but poker is a great opportunity for a wide range of people to get a headstart.

TheNoodleMan
10-07-2005, 11:03 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

$50 an hour playing 2/4? Are you serious? A great player would have to run hot for the whole year to average $10 an hour. $100k a year playing 2/4, yeah!

[/ QUOTE ]

Well OK if that's too high for you, then howbout 3/6? The level of skill doesn't change that much at casinos moving to that level. I've had many of 2/4 sessions where I did 100/hr. I think it is reasonable that you could do $50 an hour playing 3/6 if you played correctly over the longrun. My experience is that tables at casinos are rediculously loose at that level, so you just adjust accordingly.


[/ QUOTE ]
You are in for a very rude awakening. You think you can win 8BB per hour playing limit poker at a full table live? That is either the funniest or saddest thing I have ever heard. At 40 hands an hour (which is pretty generous) that would be 20BB/100hands! That is so unbelievably unsustainable that I don't even know why I'm responding to you in the first place. There is not a player in the world that can sustain that.

10-07-2005, 11:10 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I work at a proprietary trading firm. My roommate (another MIT grad) works at Bank of America for Mortgage-Backed Securities. And trading is different from brokering.

There are other jobs out there besides sales, ya know.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sweet. I used to work at GS in Capital Markets and after going through a whole "owning my own business" thing I'm moving back into banking, with a long term view of moving to NY (currently in London), for at least a couple of years at least - I'm a fair bit older than you mind; gonna turn 29 in a while. Dunno if I want to move into something like Derivs or start back in Capital Markets with a potential view to moving later.

Prop trading is great. I have a couple of friends who do just that (high yield, derivs, etc). Congratulations on an awesome job.

Which segways (just about) back into the point of the reply to the original poster - STAY IN SCHOOL or all you'll be good for is playing poker and looking at a massive struggle to get a decent job elsewhere should you ever wish to.

[ QUOTE ]
Poker is shorterm for me, a way to build capital quickly. By the time these guys with finance jobs are making 'big money', I will have retired.


[/ QUOTE ]
I like your point of view, but bear in mind they'll have the potential to be earning every year what you've earnt in 10 years. Not saying it's a good way to look at things, but playing poker profitably is never going to earn you as much as being an investment banker. The best poker players in the world might make millions every year, including side games, sponsorship, etc... there are thousands of bankers out there earning similar amounts, and plenty of them certainly aren't the best at their job and those in trading don't push more than 60-65 hours a week a lot of the time (god, to think I find that a pretty easy week...).

10-08-2005, 12:50 AM
[ QUOTE ]
100k a year is NOT chump change. check the average salary of american families

[/ QUOTE ]

What does average have to do with anything? If you are true winning poker player YOU ARE smarter than the average person, and should not expect merely average. If you want average, look at the 'average' winnings, or losses should I say, of all poker players by looking at Party Gaming's annual earnings. $100k/yr actually won in cash, not some theoretical calculations which are always much more difficult to achieve than they seem, is extremely good for a poker player, whereas it's the near bottom of the food chain as far as investment banking firms are concerned.

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway the proper comparison would be to give the 2 jobs similar hours. A 12tabling $55er will make >10k a week working 60-80hrs.

[/ QUOTE ]

1500 SnGs a week? I believe that's unsustainable, even for the best, for more than a week and unrealistic. Whereas working those hours in finance is very doable. The reason for this is that playing poker is far more difficult than simply churning out tournaments. Most greatly winning players would spend an equal amount of time studying and improving their game, so that has to be taken into account as 'working'. Also few things are as intense as 12 tabling continously while having to sprint to pee or get a drink and stuff, although trading during a stock crash or major catastrophe could be on of them, but the exception and not the normal.

However, I definately agree poker is a great way to make some cash to make some good investments now, while still studying. But in 10 years time I would hate to still be grinding it out playing poker.

liucipher
10-08-2005, 08:59 AM
1.) I single table and play the $11s. Clearly you are better at SNGs than me. I'm pretty sure everyone on the forum is. I was NOT aware that raptor & co. were making $200k+ annualized (though I'm confused by your numbers - are you factoring the fact that you're not taxed in Australia back into your wage?). I agree, there's nothing in the world I can think of that pays $300k for 20 hours a week, 40 weeks a year. Not to be obnoxious, but I go to a pretty good school with some smart kids - the fact that no one else I know has considered this makes me skeptical. Is $250 (or even $130/hr post-tax) sustainable and/or common? I mean it must be, since 20% ROI 12-tabling the 109s is that much, guess I never really thought about it ...

2.) Regarding investments, say you aggressively save $2M by the time you're 35. Aggressive assumption of 10% annual returns means you're bumping your yearly income only by $200k. $500,000 a year is a SHITLOAD of money, don't get me wrong. But to quote an [censored] I knew at UBS, "If I'm not making 7 figures by the time I'm 35, I'm in the wrong [censored] business."

3.) I'm not sure what a solid financial base is. But $2M in savings means ~$100-$200k in yearly income w/o working is great. Can't disagree there.

4.) Can you really 12-table for 60 hours? I mean I got stressed out when I four-tabled, and I interned at a trading desk. I don't know if 12-tabling 12 hours a day is all that easy. I mean, that's like 40 thousand SNGs a year . . .

5.) I can't really argue with the fact that you're going to make $300k a year, since I'm not in that league yet. I will argue, though, that "big money" in finance isnt really ~$5M in savings and a nice dividend check every year. I mean that's sort of the fallback and the dream is that you're Eddie Lampert making $1B in one year. I mean, point of reference: to make the list of the 25 best paid hedge fund managers, you had to make $100M in a YEAR.

Basically, I can't disagree that poker could earn you a crapload of money. What the hell do I know, I play $11s. But I don't know how mathematically sound it is when people extrapolate short-term nightly sessions to full 40 hours weeks, extrapolate that into 45 weeks a year, and then extrapolate that for the next 5 years. I'm going to be frank, unless you go to a handful of select Ivy League schools, the playground of big money finance is kind of closed to you. So maybe poker's better for you. But I can't shake the feeling that it's smarter to finish college before basing your wage on "extrapolating."

liucipher
10-08-2005, 09:03 AM
Were you in ECM or DCM at GS?

Are you really 29 and thinking of going back to banking? Are you sure your body can handle the stress /images/graemlins/smile.gif?

Sciolist
10-08-2005, 09:11 AM
I agree with all of the above. Should I get fired tomorrow (always possible, with the posts I make here), I will either:

a) Move to Eastern Europe. I know I can grind out $1k a week pretty easily. That's a lot of money in a country like Estonia where that's quite a bit more than the average monthly wage. Then invest in property, which will increase in value due to EU membership.

b) Go see what qualifications I need for investment banking, and play poker on the side whilst I get those.

I tried playing as a pro for a couple of years, and it's not for me (and yes, I won, though not $100k pa...)

Sciolist
10-08-2005, 09:12 AM
I guess it depends on whether you're better than them or not :]

liucipher
10-08-2005, 09:21 AM
[ QUOTE ]

To address the other post about finance jobs, what do these finance people do exactly right out of college that are making a bundle as is mentioned? I'm not challenging your knowledge I would just like to know because I'll soon be looking for one. I'm a finance major myself and have had several recent encounters with "financial" offices offering positions to recent college grads. You think you're becoming an analyst or advisor but instead they get you all excited and you find yourself doing cold calls for 80+ hours a week, selling out your family and friends as possible clients. That's how it goes here in Orlando anyway. Too many companies try to take advantage of ignorant college grads, seen it happen over and over again. I would love to come across a legitimate financial office that means well for the clients instead of trying to get them to sign up for insurance and "financial plans" (selling only the company securities and nothing else). Some companies I'm talking about include Ameriprise, Northwestern Mutual, and Meryl Lynch. Don't get me wrong, if you don't mind how these companies operate and are good at it, you can make LOTS of money. I'm just trying to see if you are referring to these types or not. Most people just consider these positions morally wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

So a point of reference: Last year, Street average for investment banking bonuses was $55k. That's on top of $55k base (rising this year to $60k at some firms) and $10k signing bonus (you can choose to include that if you want). I heard that some guys at JPM were making $70k bonus at the top end. Keep in mind investment banking is 80-90 hours a week on average, and that bonuses as early as three years ago were in the $20k range. The hours suck and the bonuses are very cyclical.

Sales and trading bonsues were supposedly within spitting distance of investment banking last year. I can't confirm that as readily, but my friends who interned said they'd heard the same. S&T is probably 60-65 hours a week and significantly more stressful during those 60 hours - a shitload happens when markets move. Bonuses in S&T are also cyclical - they're tied to how much the investment banking analysts are making and how your specific trading desk is doing.

If you're a cut above, there's even more pay at the top tier hedge funds, private equity shops, and elite prop desks on Wall Street (e.g. GS PS, GS SSG). Pay there is usually less cyclical but pressure is higher and entrance is very exclusive. Getting into these places w/o a degree from the top five or six universities and/or a relative who works there is nigh impossible.

In terms of investment banking / sales & trading: these are also somewhat closed off except to the top 25 universities, w/ heavy emphasis on the Harvard - Dartmouth group. If you're coming from a smaller school where these firms don't recruit, I'd recommend trolling your alumni databases looking for someone who's worked there in the past. It's also possible to apply to less "prestigious" divisions (e.g. Private Wealth Management) and try to work your way in the back door. Alternatively, there are a slew of lesser known shops that pay very well but aren't so snobbish in where they take their analysts from.

Good luck job searching and in pwning B&M 3/6 /images/graemlins/wink.gif

splashpot
10-08-2005, 09:47 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

$50 an hour playing 2/4? Are you serious? A great player would have to run hot for the whole year to average $10 an hour. $100k a year playing 2/4, yeah!

[/ QUOTE ]

Well OK if that's too high for you, then howbout 3/6? The level of skill doesn't change that much at casinos moving to that level. I've had many of 2/4 sessions where I did 100/hr. I think it is reasonable that you could do $50 an hour playing 3/6 if you played correctly over the longrun.

[/ QUOTE ]
Dude, you'd have to play at least 15/30 to make $50 per hour. As slow as live cardrooms deal the hands, you probably would have to play 20/40. And you would have to be very good. The mere fact that you even suggest this shows that you have much to learn.

Mr_J
10-08-2005, 09:51 AM
"though I'm confused by your numbers - are you factoring the fact that you're not taxed in Australia back into your wage?"

Yeh. Simply because pre tax incomes aren't equal. 200k from poker makes me exactly that, where as 200k from a typical job only really pays me around 120k (after tax). So it's like I have to earn 60-70% more in another job to get the same as I'd make off poker, which makes poker VERY attractive. Obviously americans don't have this advantage.

"Is $250 (or even $130/hr post-tax) sustainable and/or common? I mean it must be, since 20% ROI 12-tabling the 109s is that much, guess I never really thought about it ..."

It's definately not common, and only the best players on this forum would make more. The top 215 players supposedly 8tabling for 12%+, but I doubt they could sustain 20% at the 109s when 12tabling (this is just a guess, I'm not qualified to do anything else).

"Can you really 12-table for 60 hours? I mean I got stressed out when I four-tabled, and I interned at a trading desk. I don't know if 12-tabling 12 hours a day is all that easy. I mean, that's like 40 thousand SNGs a year . . ."

Hell no. The idea for me to 12table is to reduce the hours I have to work. I'm just saying, you can't really compare 60+ hrs in another job to 2-3hrs a day of poker. You can still make plenty of poker and have a MUCH higher quality of life.

Don't get me wrong, I'm just an average 2+2 $55er, just that 12tabling is pretty powerful when it comes to boosting hourly rates.

I'm not saying poker is better than another job in general, it really depends on the individual. For me, poker is just the first step and simply a way to build capital quickly.

10-08-2005, 10:20 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Not a bad idea.

Stupid question: how much (off the top of the head) should I expect to lose in a 4 hour session of $100NL at FW just due to variance?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't expect to lose due to variance. You should expect to make whatever the hell your EV in the game is. Of course, a 3 or 4 buy-in downswing at that game is a perfectly reasonable possibility, and 6 wouldn't be too shocking. But, assuming you're +EV, you're much more likely to earn the $600 than to lose it.

lacky
10-08-2005, 10:26 AM
BTW, it's been TWO WEEKS since the last trip report. kinda f'n hard for us to live vicariosly through you without any f'n details. (be sure to include the bit about the blond, and pictures are allowed also)

Steve

edit-hell, just start a blog, I'll check daily

10-08-2005, 10:54 AM
Great info, I appreciate it. Yeah UCF is a huge school and well known in Florida but there is the reality of Ivy leagues getting the best opportunities in NYC and so forth.

I do have lots to learn, and I appreciate the feedback and everyone getting on my ass about pwning 3/6 haha. It seems perhaps I've had a few very good runs in casinos and miscalculated. I'll have to spend more time to figure that out for myself.

Sciolist
10-08-2005, 10:56 AM
But knowing what kind of likely variance you get can be useful in a live game, because you don't want to be carrying 16x buyins in your pocket.. At least, I don't :]

lehighguy
10-08-2005, 11:19 AM
Yeah, well my mom wants me to teach her poker so she can go pro. It's so wierd. I keep dodging the question and trying to convince her that being a poker player is a bad job.

10-08-2005, 11:56 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Were you in ECM or DCM at GS?

Are you really 29 and thinking of going back to banking? Are you sure your body can handle the stress /images/graemlins/smile.gif?

[/ QUOTE ]
DCM. Horribly understaffed and working like a bitch. The usual for GS IBD then.

And yeah, I reckon I can handle it at 29. Just about! I'm 29 not 39! Working on a small business wasn't any easier, and at least I can leave this sort of job at the office, especially if I move into sales or some such eventually.

I'll either move into a position I know as an Associate or perhaps a final year Analyst, which will be fine as far as money is concerned (I don't care about the short term money, as long as I'm in a bank I want to work with and I have the prospects I want).

Newt_Buggs
10-08-2005, 12:57 PM
This thread is so long that no one is going to read this, but whatever. I'm not saying this to brag, but I'm now beating the $215s 8-10 tabling with some impressive results and I'm still in school. You guys have no excuse to drop out /images/graemlins/smile.gif

inyaface
10-08-2005, 01:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
This thread is so long that no one is going to read this, but whatever. I'm not saying this to brag, but I'm now beating the $215s 8-10 tabling with some impressive results and I'm still in school. You guys have no excuse to drop out /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally agreed. I talk about it all the time but I just don't think it would be smart at all.

inyaface
10-08-2005, 01:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Great info, I appreciate it. Yeah UCF is a huge school and well known in Florida but there is the reality of Ivy leagues getting the best opportunities in NYC and so forth.

I do have lots to learn, and I appreciate the feedback and everyone getting on my ass about pwning 3/6 haha. It seems perhaps I've had a few very good runs in casinos and miscalculated. I'll have to spend more time to figure that out for myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

I want to big up this post. So many people (especially new posters) don't ever want to admit they might have been wrong. With how much this board has to offer it's terrible that some people come on here without a willingness to adjust or learn. 2+2 was made for people like you and if you keep taking advice from the GOOD posters on here your going to learn a lot.

ravensfan
10-08-2005, 10:47 PM
My opinion of finance is somewhat different: As you mentioned, 60-100hours a week can be required. I can attest, having a university education AND partial completion of a CFA (2/3) aren't always sufficient to get into even an analyst position (although Toronto is crazy-oversaturated). You may also need to play the corporate game, work hard for a long time, progress, spend a shitload on good clothes, etc to get the chance to work your way up. Working hard, being smart, and enthusiastic about the job, may put you at 100K within 8 years, but 200K?
In Canada, with the tax laws as they are: 100K US poker ~ 200K Cdn legit.

Why wait through 10 years of hard work, good fortune, long hours, and less enjoyable working conditions, only to get somewhere you can be now?

Also, having capital is huge. If you can invest 60K a year (living off of 40K is still sick enough), then you won't need to work in the finance industry as you can start turning that money around really quicly - if you put the same passion into the next venture as this.

That said, make DAMN SURE you're pulling $50/hr.

My plan is this: once i graduate to 33s, i'm tracking my hourly earnings. If i'm at $55+/hr over 500 hours, i'm going to assume that this sample size is sufficient, and slip it by the fiance/wife. Pray for me!!

ravensfan
10-08-2005, 10:59 PM
100K for 10 years... invest 60K/year... you can "grind out" 100K ( or 200K after tax), but your other investments should be doing ok at this point.
BTW: how many people in mid 30s+ do you know who are actually pulling 200K+/year? And you can't count the executives at your job.
I'd say i know 3 people in their 40s at 200K.

ravensfan
10-08-2005, 11:06 PM
I gotta bring you out when i break it to the family!!

This is exactly what i'm saying... Have fun, do what you love, and then turn that [censored] into something else you're going to love.
Hell, if you're that hellbent on finance, use the poker money to go to Harvardish MBA, Harvardish FInance, etc then you can make the sick loot too. A lot easier than fighting your way through the ranks.

I guess the question is this: given the same FV of money in 20years, would you rather play poker online or work in finance. Truthfully both have their strengths and weaknesses, but i'm thinking waking up when i want, where i want, and listening to whom i want is a pretty good gig.
But will poker be a fun when you need the money?

Mr_J
10-08-2005, 11:48 PM
"I guess the question is this: given the same FV of money in 20years, would you rather play poker online or work in finance."

You mean I keep the same hourly rate in poker but experience an exponential type income as I rise up in finance??

For me it's poker hands down.

1. Earn isn't bad.
2. Much lower hours.
3. Higher quality of life (thanks to less hours).
4. Tax free in australia, most +ev I'll ever get.
5. Flexible schedule, if I wake up on monday and want to fly to europe, I can.
6. I can parlay my winnings into investments and make a $hitload of money, giving me a much larger income and the option of not having to play poker for nearly as long /images/graemlins/smile.gif

#3 is the most important to me. I'd take 4hrs a day and 200k a year anyday over 8hrs a day and 2mil a year, but that's just me.

There's nothing I want in life that a 2mil income can by that a 200k income couldn't. Ok, well maybe 1 thing, and that's about another dozen cars in my car collection.

10-09-2005, 01:04 PM
Wow, it seems there are tons of finance people on here. Are the majority of poker players typically finance/business people? It makes sense given the investment theory of pot odds and so forth, at the very basic level.

The finance industry seems to be completely saturated everywhere. I read in my corporate finance textbook that for every stock traded, there are 1,000~ analysts. I try not to get discouraged as far as getting my foot in the door, and I also try to remember that EVERY industry is saturated for the most part. Everyone is trying to find their place. One industry that I really get excited about is alternative/renewable energy. That industry is growing at 20-30% for solar power and 40-50% for wind turbines per year. There are great ideas out there but not enough business people to get the products moving. Anyone want to start a business? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

10-09-2005, 01:31 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I can attest, having a university education AND partial completion of a CFA (2/3) aren't always sufficient to get into even an analyst position (although Toronto is crazy-oversaturated).

[/ QUOTE ]
Wow! Nice job on the CFA (I never had to take it, nor will it ever be required for anything I'd want to be involved in, though one of my best friends finished his in three straight years and is covering various sectors in the European equity markets now for a big investment house here. The pain I saw him going through doing those exams - I'll never forget it!). And I assume by "analyst" you mean Equity/Debt/etc Analyst, rather than the position of Analyst at a firm, which is the lowest entry point for front office. If not, then that's just insane!

[ QUOTE ]
BTW: how many people in mid 30s+ do you know who are actually pulling 200K+/year? And you can't count the executives at your job.
I'd say i know 3 people in their 40s at 200K.

[/ QUOTE ]
I know many MANY people making more than that in their 20s - all bankers or working in Hedge Funds, etc, though plenty make good money in consultancy and a couple running their own businesses. And no, I'm not one of them.

Having said all that, I agree about the quality of life many have posted (although it's not just about working less hours - working for a good firm has it's benefits as well as it's shortfalls). If you can make good money "working" 20 hours or so per week from poker, then I'm all for it. I'm poker small fry (I read a lot from the forum but am pretty new here in terms of posting, and I'm building my online bankroll from scratch as of a very short while ago) but if I was making six figures every year from poker I'd have a tougher choice in what I'd want to do for a career.

microbet
10-09-2005, 02:00 PM
Yes.

ravensfan
10-09-2005, 09:36 PM
Thanks for the props!

How many hours do your friends work? Do they do the typical 40hr week, or are they killing it?
Currently i'm in a relatively advanced, yet still CSR-type position... finished L1 and L2 very quickly, although poker almost stopped that from happening . Still new at poker (been playing online for only 12 months or so), but am starting to really see the results...

In Toronto, it's supposedly one of the, if not the most, saturated CFA markets around, and not too many opportunities present themselves... And i'm not forcing it, as i'm trying to decide if 35hrs/week can equal the same income as 55hrs/week in finance. An analyst position would teach great tools though (where else do you learn the best way to invest the money you make from poker).

I believe there's tonnes of money available, but I agree with Mr. J: money ain't everything, especially at the upper levels.... I see so many Type A go-go-go guys who never seem satisfied, but build these empires, and then compare them to the perfectly contented family guy (ever see "the Family Man" or whatever with Nicolas Cage?)...

Just trying to sort out which one of two pretty solid options I should take...

TruFloridaGator
10-09-2005, 10:09 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why not? Imho, this is no different a call than a good college athlete leaving college early to take a shot at the pros.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty sure this makes me the Matt Walsh of the SNG circuit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bahaha, Matt Walsh Reference!!

Blarg
10-09-2005, 10:52 PM
Sounds like they want you out of the house. Maybe they want some privacy, or you are costing them money by staying there? Or you or the friends you bring over are louder or more obnoxious than you realize? Or maybe you just cause her extra work around the house that she's tired of?

I'm not saying this with any authority, cuz I have none and don't claim to know anything about you. But I remember how thrilled my parents were with any idea that involved me getting the hell out of the house once I reached 18. Of course, they had been feeling that way for the past dozen years, so it didn't phase me much. Anyway, that's such a bizarre thing for a parent to say that it seems very hard to believe it would be said with no bigger context than itself alone. There's not much of a good argument for abandoning your college studies for any reason, especially from a parent. To even broach the subject suggests to me that there is more going on than meets the eye.

Blarg
10-09-2005, 11:11 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Finish school first. Seriously.
(In 2+2 parlance: get through levels 1-3 before pushing).
Some things to consider:
1.Your degree will give you an amazing amount of options. Poker pro can be one of them.
2.You can continue playing online while in school, so you're not missing out.
3. Poker money (except at the very,very,very extreme upper-end) is chump change compared to a lot of other things that a young person with a sharp mind can be doing and earning.. (Homework -- what did Phil Gordon do _before_ becoming a poker pro? What's owning 5% of a $20M company worth? What's it worth if you make a 6 figure salary while your at it?)
4. Shackling up financial needs to a game you love playing changes the relationship. It's fun now making money playing when you can take time off for studying; dating; seeing concerts; going to movies; sleeping 18 hours straight -- you get the idea. Pro means professional -- you'll have to hit hard and not slack off or you'll get smoked -- ie it's a lot like work. The thing to realise is that your progress and efforts are not linear. There will be times when you're not very productive nor very focused and other times you'll be on a tear. When your on salary it's no big deal -- you probably won't even notice it. When you're self-employed it's a tremendous stress and strain. Really.
5. Mom will eventually come to terms with your being a college graduate.

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Great post.

Blarg
10-09-2005, 11:11 PM
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5. Mom will eventually come to terms with your being a college graduate.

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lmao

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Me too.

Blarg
10-09-2005, 11:14 PM
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Finish college and continue to get better at poker.

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If nothing else because you basically have enough time to play semi-pro while going to school, and because university is an amazing time. I think I'd have way more fun at university now then playing poker somewhere else.

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It's a miserable grind for lots of people, like the working poor or adults with families or responsibilities. I was sometimes working 60 hours a week while going to college, and the last thing it was, was good memories.

Cool for those who have fun there, though. It's great if it works out that way.

ravensfan
10-09-2005, 11:59 PM
#3 is key.
So is
#7: Cost of living can be cut dramatically through online poker as you can leave a major city center, and not have to drop all your money on clothes and other trappings of wealth (to keep up with the jones'), to allow the exponential curve begin.

That is, if you don't want to enjoy the "trappings of wealth" in the big city...

Mr_J
10-10-2005, 12:24 AM
"Cost of living can be cut dramatically through online poker as you can leave a major city center"

The no tax thing kind of just balances out the higher cost of living than what americans have.

NiR
10-10-2005, 12:40 AM
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Why not? Imho, this is no different a call than a good college athlete leaving college early to take a shot at the pros. If it doesn't work out, go back and finish. If it does work out, chances are good you'll make a lot more money than you would with a degree.

Congratulations. You've got a better Mom than I had, or still have. (She thinks I'm a degenerate gambler, but never misses the Tues Night Lotto and Sat Night bingo.)

CJ

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u cant just go back and finish college. wont happen. it wont happen!! just finish college .im sure your playing alot anyway so whats colege got to do with it. i play like 25 hours a week and i have college full time in a nerd engineering school. and plus. u want the bitches also. unlimited supplies in college. most colleges...

10-10-2005, 01:26 PM
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Thanks for the props!

How many hours do your friends work? Do they do the typical 40hr week, or are they killing it?

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Killing it. NO ONE works 40 hours! 60 hours would be a good week, with 13 hours each day being more typical for sales & trading. Friends in IBD, Capital Markets, Syndicate, etc work longer (or at least more unpredictable) hours for the most part.

10-10-2005, 04:50 PM
So in other words, no life at all?

ravensfan
10-11-2005, 11:03 AM
Here in Canada we don't pay taxes on it either... /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

ravensfan
10-11-2005, 11:04 AM
And to think i passed on law school because of the 50-55hour weeks

zambonidrivr
10-11-2005, 11:24 AM
Reno? LOL. Hillarious.
DOn't you play the $10's?
Is your mom on crack?

10-11-2005, 01:20 PM
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So in other words, no life at all?

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Plenty of life, just no sleep.