Strange play against a shortstacked maniac [Archive]

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brazilio

10-06-2005, 04:53 PM

Villain had raised the past 6 pots in a row, and before that in the last 26 hands had gone 70/40 while losing about 50BB in the process. He'd shown down a lot of junk. I really really want to get to showdown here. It's very possible that I missed a river value bet. Other two villains were loose and shitty.

Don't discuss preflop.
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Hero raises, 1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 3 folds, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, SB caps, Hero calls.

Turn: (11.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

River: (13.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB

jskills

10-06-2005, 04:58 PM

If convinced he was just doing this with junk, I suppose I just call down after the flop C/R, but I wasn't sitting at the table with this guy, so it appears you had a very strong read to 3-bet with overcards.

The fact that he caps the flop and leads the turn is very scary. The turn call you made seems pretty shaky with just A high.

His river check is encouraging - I hope you were right ...

brazilio

10-06-2005, 05:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If convinced he was just doing this with junk, I suppose I just call down after the flop C/R, but I wasn't sitting at the table with this guy, so it appears you had a very strong read to 3-bet with overcards.

The fact that he caps the flop and leads the turn is very scary. The turn call you made seems pretty shaky with just A high.

His river check is encouraging - I hope you were right ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Just calling the flop checkraise sucks. A lot.

10-06-2005, 05:18 PM

Your confidence in A high with a Ten kicker agianst a flop CR and and a turn bet against any villain is quite inspiring....

W. Deranged

10-06-2005, 05:20 PM

Since when are we open-raising under the gun with ATo???

brazilio

10-06-2005, 05:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Since when are we open-raising under the gun with ATo???

[/ QUOTE ]

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W. Deranged

10-06-2005, 05:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If convinced he was just doing this with junk, I suppose I just call down after the flop C/R, but I wasn't sitting at the table with this guy, so it appears you had a very strong read to 3-bet with overcards.

The fact that he caps the flop and leads the turn is very scary. The turn call you made seems pretty shaky with just A high.

His river check is encouraging - I hope you were right ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Just calling the flop checkraise sucks. A lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the flop response to the check-raise is entirely dependant on your reads of the other two players. You need to be quite sure that they will fold overcards to two cold, and hence allow you to clean up outs, in order for this play to be correct. Realize that the pot has gotten huge by this point and it's going to be quite difficult to make them fold.

If you figure that one or both of them will call some large proportion of the time, raising serves to do nothing more than forces yourself to put in one and often two more bets on what amounts to nothing more than a VERY tenuous draw (as once they call it is unlikely you'll win the hand unimproved or even that you are ahead any significant portion of the time).

brazilio

10-06-2005, 05:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Your confidence in A high with a Ten kicker agianst a flop CR and and a turn bet against any villain is quite inspiring....

[/ QUOTE ]

He isn't any villain, and if the rest of your posts are as banally worthless as this one the sooner you stop posting in this thread the better.

callmedonnie

10-06-2005, 07:06 PM

I agree with Deranged that you need to be able to fold the other two players facing two cold. If so, then I like it a lot. Ace high against this guy is enough. I would want to showdown cheaply and I too would miss a value bet on river.

If the other two come along you are in trouble. Way too many cards that could hurt or at least help out loose bad players enough that they wouldn't consider folding at this point.

jskills

10-06-2005, 07:14 PM

thesharpie

10-06-2005, 07:14 PM

Fold preflop.

No discussion.

brazilio

10-06-2005, 07:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop.

No discussion.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you never post in another thread that I ever read I will consider it a victory of the finest sort.

B Dids

10-06-2005, 07:39 PM

Ignore me, it's hard for the SB to raise his own check. I guess I don't hate it, I'm not sure ATo is a hand I really want to go to war with like this.

I think it's too bad that people couldn't get past the "ignore preflop" part.

thesharpie

10-06-2005, 07:57 PM

I just can't get past brazillio's attitude. Prolly shouldn't fight fire with fire, though.

B Dids

10-06-2005, 07:58 PM

I think we all know that preflop is marginal, including braz. Which is why there's not much to say.

thesharpie

10-06-2005, 08:06 PM

He's pissed me off with a couple of comments made in the past, and the trend continued in this post toward others so I decided to act as obnoxious as him which was stupid.

chief444

10-06-2005, 08:10 PM

Postflop looks good to me. I think the flop 3-bet is good considering SB's check/raise doean't mean much as far as a hand and the pot size.

River is close considering it's very unlikely he's checking any pair but if he may check/raise better hands here then I like the check.

brazilio

10-06-2005, 08:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
He's pissed me off with a couple of comments made in the past, and the trend continued in this post toward others so I decided to act as obnoxious as him which was stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your worthlessness is only compounded by your apparent incompetence at giving poker advice. Suicide is an option, but really I'd prefer you just sequester yourself for the rest of your natural life, avoiding human contact whenever possible.

Brunger

10-06-2005, 08:18 PM

This looks fine to me you just have to get the others out and close your eyes and get to showdown.

thesharpie

10-06-2005, 08:22 PM

Fold pre-birth d00d. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Piiop

10-06-2005, 08:59 PM

Why did you even post this hand? Was it so you could reject everyone who gave you advice? Was it so you could show everyone that you're a douche? If you're going to post a hand, why don't you actually give logical argumentss why or why not you think you played the hand correctly, instead of telling people who respond what they think sucks. Or maybe, you could just keep all your thoughts to yourself from now on.

brazilio

10-06-2005, 09:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you even post this hand? Was it so you could reject everyone who gave you advice? Was it so you could show everyone that you're a douche? If you're going to post a hand, why don't you actually give logical argumentss why or why not you think you played the hand correctly, instead of telling people who respond what they think sucks. Or maybe, you could just keep all your thoughts to yourself from now on.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts are I want the two idiots out, and he's a douchebag. I can see no way possible that calling the SB's checkraise does anything to get those guys out. I'm not worried about the SB. I'm check/folding the turn if both call the next 2 back, I'm perhaps playing if one calls 2 back. I'm not polite because discussing preflop and preflop alone is inane. The people that make 1-word posts describing nothing but preflop are the reason that this forum is filled with nonsensical advice poorly written and even poorly pondered, and inhabited by a handful of good posters but mostly by idiots like thesharpie propagating weak-tight and shitty advice in hands they're too lazy or stupid to actually look at.

So no, what I'm not looking for is backslapping or pandering to my own thoughts about the hand. And no, what I'm not looking for is troglodytes like thesharpie to ever post again. He and his ilk are incompetent at worst, and misguidedly wrong at best. What I am looking for is a better line if any to isolate or a better line with some reasonable expectation that we can see one person call two on the flop. You can do whatever you like.

ZenMusician

10-06-2005, 09:52 PM

BRAVO!

I particularly liked "troglodyte" and "ilk"

Your command of the English language is impressive.

Now try to put aside hostility and ignore inflammatory posts and
you will actually find gems of poker knowledge - sometimes
hidden in these threads. I hope you cool off and continue posting
hands because you have some good theories...(and some pretty
damn funny comebacks!)

Good Luck

-ZEN

Piiop

10-06-2005, 10:06 PM

I think that maybe you should calm down a little bit.

As for the hand, I think it's fine. Like a couple others have said, if the other two players in on the flop aren't going to fold for two more, then you might consider calling the flop c/r and raising any turn card then evaluating after that. It really depends on how the table and these players have been reacting to this player.

thesharpie

10-06-2005, 10:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I'm not polite...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the reason I posted the short PF response in the first place, you've pissed me off in the past, and have pissed a few people off in this post, and I knew it would piss you off if I posted it. You accuse me of being too lazy or idiotic to post my reasons behind an action I choose, yet all you've done up until now is give smart ass remarks to people you don't agree with without backing it up.

I didn't want to discuss preflop, and I couldn't give a [censored], but how can I be weak tight for folding this preflop when it's a standard fold without reads, let alone a read that you're going to have a couple of loose passives sandwiched between you and a maniac, that's if you're lucky enough to not have it isolated by someone and capped by the maniac. Seems like really you didn't think it through. Ace ten good.

DTsee

10-06-2005, 11:04 PM

The sharpie, pm him if you want to bitch at him for critizing you stop derailing the post

focus: braz, I think yours is the only line that gets the other two out, interesting hand

brazilio

10-06-2005, 11:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I'm not polite...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the reason I posted the short PF response in the first place, you've pissed me off in the past, and have pissed a few people off in this post, and I knew it would piss you off if I posted it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sure do like to overstate your own importance to me. Go get a hug or find a support group or something. You're useless and most of your posts are equally so. If you're looking for some kind of gratification, will it make you feel better thinking I'm sitting here fuming out of control? Because I sure am, I've been raging against my teddy bear the WHOLE TIME.

Let's PM duder so we can converse!!!

thesharpie

10-06-2005, 11:09 PM

Let's do. I'm kind of lonely feeling weak tight and suicidal right now. /images/graemlins/blush.gif /images/graemlins/frown.gif