View Full Version : should i speak up or keep quiet
Mikey
05-22-2003, 04:41 AM
I witnessed this in a hand at the poker table at the Tropican in AC.
I'm not involved in the hand but the player to my right is.
3 people were involved in the hand and the player to my right is in the middle of the action. We'll call that player JOHN.
Now this is what happened.
On the river Seat 1 bet out(an elderly lady), John was in seat 5 and called.
Seat 10 raised, Seat 1 reraised, now the dealers head is on a complete 180 degree swivle, back and forth watching seat 10 as he raised and counting out his chips since he didn't put in enough, now the dealer looks back at Seat 1 (an elderly lady) who reraised and then back to seat 10.
As her head is going back and forth Seat 5 (JOHN) grabs his chips back and folds his hand. He takes his chips and puts them back on his stack and flicks his cards towards the dealer.
That money that he called with on the river shold have obviously stayed in there and I'm the only one who saw it.
I wanted to say something, but I didn't.
As I watched the elderly lady stack her chips I felt bad but I didn't say anything since the pot was now $15 short.
I wanted to say something but I wasn't sure if it was my place to say it.
I think i did something wrong.
What do you think?
Mason Malmuth
05-22-2003, 04:56 AM
Hi Mikey:
I would have spoken up. The reason for this is that you don't want that person playing poker where you do. If he has taken that type of shot once, he's probably done it many times. Not only would I speak up, but I would demand that he be thrown out of the poker room.
Best wishes,
Mason
Mikey
05-22-2003, 05:11 AM
Mason I agree completely with what you say, but there is a flip side to the coin.
The man
1) sees about 95% of the flops
2) sees about 85% of the turn
3) sees the river 75% of the time
4) calls with something, nothing, or close to nothing about 75% of the time on the river.
Although he is a complete donator would you still recommend he be thrown out of the room or should we keep him so we can feed off of him, I should have included this in the oringinal post.
Would you say that the above changes anything or should we still boot him since he has a low standard of ethics.
I'm still confused.
Keep him or boot him?
Schmed
05-22-2003, 09:17 AM
Why wouldn't you say something???? This guy is angling an old lady. Not only should you have said something you should have called the floor over and had him removed from your table.
Dynasty
05-22-2003, 09:45 AM
You should consider the possibility that it was an absent-minded mistake. On a couple occassions, I've folded my big blind to a raise (nobody else in the pot besides the raiser) and have grabbed my chips to put them back in the stack as if it were a chop. Of course, I quickly realized that the chips didn't belong to me.
Schmed
05-22-2003, 09:48 AM
Absolutely, but certainly if you see someone even make the mistake you should say something. I guess my response was assuming that I was sure the guy was angling.
bernie
05-22-2003, 09:57 AM
i wouldve said something. your not helping anyone in a hand, but you are helping police the cardroom.
you can also tell the floorman off to the side so they can check the tapes. that way they can make it look like the camera picked it up and the guy wont suspect you. if your worried about that.
speak up man...it couldve been done in your pot
b
Easy E
05-22-2003, 10:07 AM
If you were the lady, wouldn't YOU want to know when someone was stealing from YOUR pot?
Easy E
05-22-2003, 10:11 AM
Mikey, just because he's a donor (while, admittedly, I would address this problem differently than if I KNEW he was a tight angle-shooter), doesn't mean that you can allow this to happen.
Mention to the guy that he "accidently" took out his bet. If he doesn't react properly, drop the hammer.
If he's a donor, you can always find him at another table. But this kind of thing in others' hands, assuming John's was an innocent mistake, should be squashed.
Either way, speak up.
Kurn, son of Mogh
05-22-2003, 10:48 AM
I've done it, too. Pulled my cards out from under the card protector, tossed them in the muck and without looking, grabbed my bet instead of the card protector. Pretty embarassing.
I like this approach. It gives the guy a chance to fix the problem and then tells you all you need to know about him if he refuses to cooperate.
Easy E
05-22-2003, 01:33 PM
Instead of reaction to the initial post with my "hell YES" reply and THEN reading....
but, if you can't tilt every once in a while, what's poker for?
Easy E
05-22-2003, 01:35 PM
If his reply wasn't there, would I have cooled out enough to adjust mine?
Who knows?
Tyler Durden
05-22-2003, 04:39 PM
It doesn't matter how good the guy is for the game if he's shorting the pot whenever he feels like it.
JTG51
05-22-2003, 09:42 PM
You should absolutely speak up. Your opponents relative fishiness should have nothing to do with your morality. Whether he purposely cheated or if it was an honest mistake, he still stole $15 out of his opponents pocket.
Tommy Angelo
05-27-2003, 05:09 AM
"I think i did something wrong."
I don't. No one is ever obligated to talk at a public poker table. That's one of the most beautiful and fairest things about it.
Tommy
nicky g
05-27-2003, 06:32 AM
I restacked a bunch of chips in a home game tourney that no longer belonged to me by accident on Sunday. They were near my stack and I did it without thinking - I guess I vaguely thought they were just overspill from my stack fromwhen I'd been breaking it to bet. To make matters worse, later on I went all-in with 2 kings and was called by A9. I proceeded to hurriedly deal out saying "no ace!", and the flop came with a beautful king on it. Unfortunately, someone pointed out that a. I wasn't the dealer, b. the flop king was the same as one of my pocket kings, and c. I was using the wrong deck! We have several decks in play to speed thing up and I had been shuffling for the next deal, and in my impatience automatically started to deal the flop. Now THAT's really embarassing (especially as I didn't know the host very well). When the real flop was dealt out it of course contained the dreaded ace. In my defence, I was very tired and hungover - too hungover really to have been playing in the first place.
WillYumTX
05-28-2003, 01:54 AM
Read this a while ago....
Winston Churchill was at a very fancy dinner party. He noticed another guest put one of the gold salt shakers into her handbag. Churchill then picked up the gold pepper mill and put it into his jacket pocket, while the woman was watching.
He then turned to her and said, "Oh my, I think that the host saw us. We had better put them both back."
'later,
WillYum
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